[flinkenick]

Interesting! Are you going to have your cable reterminated to 3.5mm trs or XLR balanced for Fiio?

 

[davidmolliere]

  Interesting! Are you going to have your cable reterminated to 3.5mm trs or XLR balanced for Fiio?

 
The balanced module will feature a 2.5mm TRRS jack, as it happens the first whiplash I ordered was terminated by a 2.5 instead of the 3.5 TRRS I ordered initially for the ZX2, which I'll be keeping. Apparently they will use the new TI OPA 1622 for that module. I find it interesting that they opened amp module to 3rd party, might be great down the line.
 
I expect the X7 to get better as it burns in, so first impressions were "as is" and I'll of course take more time with it

 

[flinkenick]

Ah they added 2.5mm trrs - good call. Looks like manufacturers are slowly converging towards 2.5mm for balanced as the standard.

 

[bouyouhou]

After hours of listening with my new P1 (and S-EM9) i do have a question for you : do you use any Jet effect EQ?

Sometimes i feel like there is not enough relief with the normal modewhich is completely strange regarding the quality of the S EM9...
For example i do like the BBE MP but i feel quite angry/disturb to change the sound of a 1000$ DAP.

I feel like my ipod nano has more impact and texture in the low range :/

 

[Mimouille]

After hours of listening with my new P1 (and S-EM9) i do have a question for you : do you use any Jet effect EQ?

Sometimes i feel like there is not enough relief with the normal modewhich is completely strange regarding the quality of the S EM9...
For example i do like the BBE MP but i feel quite angry/disturb to change the sound of a 1000$ DAP.

I feel like my ipod nano has more impact and texture in the low range :/

Maybe the IPod Nano is just boosted in the mid bass and that is what you are expecting because that is what you are used to?

 

[davidmolliere]

Maybe the IPod Nano is just boosted in the mid bass and that is what you are expecting because that is what you are used to?

 
Mimouille is probably right. I don't know the P1, but I had the same experience with the ZX2, and not with the X7 it's not only a matter of DAP range but also the sound sig. From what I remember the iPod is indeed boosted in the mid range. Last but not least more prominent bass and/or treble might affect how you perceived mids compare to what you're used to.
 
How long have you had the P1, I know it can take a bit of time to get into a DAP sound sig especially if you've done a significant upgrade your brain will need to adjust to the additional info it needs to process...

 

[Raketen]

Those DSP effects are generally considered among the best features of the Cowon DAPs aren't they?... part of what you pay for, I mean.
 
and +1 on allowing yourself some brain burn in with a new player, especially if you've been listening to the same device for years.

 

[bouyouhou]

@mimouille @davidmolliere @raketen

You are probably right about the time i need to get use to it... i only have it for the last 3 or 4 days.

I do not see yet more details compared to the ipod whereas i really pay attention. For example, what i do for the last couple of days is listening a song that i know a lot 3 or 4 times with the P1 and then do directly the same with the ipod.

From i heard : more impact and bass a little bit more present (but you still feel the difference) on the ipod and more soundstage for the P1 (especially in depth which give you better voices and better coherence).

BUT... not more details whereas i am extremely picky and do pay attention on every notes, every lines and arrangements.

Oh and last thing that reinforce my disapointment, i did felt the loss of texture by the difference of treatment between songs. Some are extremely well managed some are just disapointing. Or as you may say some fulfill what i expected some dont...


Hum.

 

[Raketen]

From what I have read, the performance of multi-BA headphones across different sources can be quite variable. As long as the headphone is being adequately supplied it is entirely possible it is performing better, or just closer to your preferences with the iPod (especially since that is a sound your ears are trained to hear). I have only had a couple dual BA or 2+1 hybrids, but have found noticable changes in character between my different sources with those.
 
Do you notice this with all of your headphones or just the s-em9?

 

[davidmolliere]

Oh and last thing that reinforce my disapointment, i did felt the loss of texture by the difference of treatment between songs. Some are extremely well managed some are just disapointing. Or as you may say some fulfill what i expected some dont...

 
That last bit is what happens when you get "better" and more revealing sources :

1. differences in mastering quality are showing, not always for the better, but on the other hand when it's good it's all goodness
2. better encoded albums sound noticeably better where you felt it didn't make such a difference before

 
Strange that you would feel you loose texture with the P1 though, it should be the other way around.
All this with the S-EM9 I gather?
 

  From what I have read, the performance of multi-BA headphones across different sources can be quite variable. As long as the headphone is being adequately supplied it is entirely possible it is performing better, or just closer to your preferences with the iPod (especially since that is a sound your ears are trained to hear). I have only had a couple dual BA or 2+1 hybrids, but have found noticable changes in character between my different sources with those.

 
Interesting, never heard that before about multi-BA vs dynamic, but the differences across sources were more pronounced with IEMs in general. I only owned one dynamic (the IE800) and one hybrid (XBA-Z5), the rest all were multi-BA but I'd have trouble saying it was more pronounced with multi-BA. I think I have noticed more difference regarding sources with low impendance IEMs as they require very low output impedance and some source are not fitting that bill which you clearly hear.
 
One thing I have noticed though, is that contrary to what I thought the source power does matter quite a bit even with IEMs. It's something I fully realized with the Mojo with the S-EM9. DAPs can drive an IEM well, but the extra power will be a major factor for dynamics.
 
After cycling through Mojo / ZX2 / X7 as sources for the S-EM9 I'd say it pairs better with DAPs / Amp that have a bit of emphasis in the mids (at least to my taste). When I got the S-EM9 I was mainly using the ZX2, I felt it was not living to its potential especially vocals and mids. With the Mojo I went from feeling the S-EM9 was U shaped to a much more subtle U, closer to linear response. With the X7, vocals are even better and mids are so lush but you loose some sparkle and bass impact.
 
Different sources will express different aspects of the S-EM9, just a theory but I think the more potential an IEM has the more it can reveal the specifics of the source which is really interesting as you can enjoy very different things with the same IEM. Same goes for cable. I don't think lower end IEMs reveal that much differences from a good cable, it really pays off with top tier goodness. 

Can't wait to receive my Whiplash TWspc

 

[Mimouille]

I think you have to be pragmatic about it. If after a while you still like the IPod better, then just keep the IPod. For iems, many people consider "audiophile" sources bring limited benefit.

I have always been suspicious about more or less detail. Details on a song are always there unless you listen to 96k mp3. With flac, they are always there. But some sources or iems have a signature that is clearer or sharper which pushes details forward. There is no magic in it really. Of course, some really excellent DACs sound significantly more transparent and clear, allowing you to hear details better. But it's not like "details" are a separate part of the frequency that appears or disappears.

That is all IMO of course, I am no technician.

 

[flinkenick]

After hours of listening with my new P1 (and S-EM9) i do have a question for you : do you use any Jet effect EQ?

Sometimes i feel like there is not enough relief with the normal modewhich is completely strange regarding the quality of the S EM9...
For example i do like the BBE MP but i feel quite angry/disturb to change the sound of a 1000$ DAP.

I feel like my ipod nano has more impact and texture in the low range :/

Hi buddy, don't worry I understand your initial disappointment. Two things:
 
1) Yes I most definitely use the jet effect settings. I never used EQ before, but as someone pointed out Cowon is known for their excellent EQ. It really transforms the music, and I use different settings for different genres or iems. In fact, I don't really like the standard setting either it seems to sound a bit dull. The first few days I also only listened on standard mode, and was severely unimpressed compared to the DX90. Then I started using the EQ and the P1 came to life, it's really a night or day difference for me and I have friends that think the same. Play around with the presets, and all the instruments will suddenly appear in all their glory. Concerning the low end, if you try the setting 'dance' I will bet my house that the P1 outclasses your ipod in the bass department. Disclaimer: I do not own a house and have none to bet with. 
 
2) Again like someone pointed out, allow some time for brain burn in. Just listen to the P1 for 1-2 weeks. You'll think you're not hearing much difference, and will be shocked when you first hear the ipod again after a while.
 
So yes I do recognise what you're saying as I had the same initial reaction, and for now I'd say you don't have to worry it will grow on you rapidly. The P1 is a very unique mix of a warm, dark and analogue sound, yet still with high technical capabilities concerning imaging, dynamics and detail. It's a very charming sound without having the drawbacks that might come with that: a classic car with a modern engine if you will. 
 
Let me know how it's going in a couple of days.

 

[Raketen]

   
Interesting, never heard that before about multi-BA vs dynamic, but the differences across sources were more pronounced with IEMs in general. I only owned one dynamic (the IE800) and one hybrid (XBA-Z5), the rest all were multi-BA but I'd have trouble saying it was more pronounced with multi-BA. I think I have noticed more difference regarding sources with low impendance IEMs as they require very low output impedance and some source are not fitting that bill which you clearly hear.
 
One thing I have noticed though, is that contrary to what I thought the source power does matter quite a bit even with IEMs. It's something I fully realized with the Mojo with the S-EM9. DAPs can drive an IEM well, but the extra power will be a major factor for dynamics.
 
After cycling through Mojo / ZX2 / X7 as sources for the S-EM9 I'd say it pairs better with DAPs / Amp that have a bit of emphasis in the mids (at least to my taste). When I got the S-EM9 I was mainly using the ZX2, I felt it was not living to its potential especially vocals and mids. With the Mojo I went from feeling the S-EM9 was U shaped to a much more subtle U, closer to linear response. With the X7, vocals are even better and mids are so lush but you loose some sparkle and bass impact.
 
Different sources will express different aspects of the S-EM9, just a theory but I think the more potential an IEM has the more it can reveal the specifics of the source which is really interesting as you can enjoy very different things with the same IEM. Same goes for cable. I don't think lower end IEMs reveal that much differences from a good cable, it really pays off with top tier goodness. 

Can't wait to receive my Whiplash TWspc

Good to read observations coming from someone who has used so many different sources

 
My own experience, particularly with the dual-BA IM02 (a little less with the 2000J, not much at all with asg-2.5) was that it exhibited dramatically different character across different sources (and not entirely correlating to their output impedances), but character that wasn't entirely reflective of how I had experienced those sources with my dynamic headphones like the DT 1350 or ex1000. I guess it is, as you mention, the variance in output impedance, or maybe the max output, or maybe the voltage swing... before we even start to talk about the 'sound' of a source there are so many different factors that could contribute. Very confusing and seemingly difficult to predict, and the more I learn the more confusing it gets

 

[Raketen]

RE: The Plenue 1, I just remembered reading some impressions in the past (i think on Headfonia or one of those similar sites) that said it has a little bit of an 'analog' type of sound with softened highs, though not lacking in detail... might explain the complaint here. I think a few of the iPods are known for a colder/analytical character? (certainly was the case with my old 4th or 5th gen Nano, though I didn't realize until I started trying other devices).
 
-found the article in question- http://cymbacavum.com/2014/08/02/rapid-reaction-cowon-plenue-p1/

 

[ezekiel77]

  Good to read observations coming from someone who has used so many different sources

 
My own experience, particularly with the dual-BA IM02 (a little less with the 2000J, not much at all with asg-2.5) was that it exhibited dramatically different character across different sources (and not entirely correlating to their output impedances), but character that wasn't entirely reflective of how I had experienced those sources with my dynamic headphones like the DT 1350 or ex1000. I guess it is, as you mention, the variance in output impedance, or maybe the max output, or maybe the voltage swing... before we even start to talk about the 'sound' of a source there are so many different factors that could contribute. Very confusing and seemingly difficult to predict, and the more I learn the more confusing it gets

 
I read in the ATH-IM series thread that the IM02 is very sensitive to source. It needs a DAP with output impedance with 1 ohm or less to bring out its best. Most other IEMs are not that picky.