[davidmolliere]

After more time with AMP8...

One thing I did notice is I listen to it a bit louder than AMP4 (10 clicks louder), which kind of didn't make sense at first but... I think signature aside the sheer headroom and dynamics of AMP8 is definitely the key highlight of this AMP design.

I think I am listening louder because dynamics are much wider. Low level detail is just amazing, but it's true as well of high level detail which makes what usually would be shrill when louder just a smooth listening experience. Everything is more progressive *and* reactive or fast (for lack of better words). Listen to tracks with piano to forte and vice versa and you'll see. Last but not least for each note, note density is varying through "finer steps" it's much more rich in how it's rendered. Think of it as there are much more colors nuances to paint the picture. I think it explains why stage depth and Z axis cue is also such a treat. Decay is very interesting, it can be slower when called for but faster when it's appropriate. I have trouble putting this into words (@Whitigir might be of help here) as it's not something often discussed but it's really distinctive.

I have fond memories of the ZX2 and WM1A for the same distinctive qualities, but AMP8 surpasses both IMHO in that respect. It has an analog feel to it...

 

[jamato8]

After more time with AMP8...

One thing I did notice is I listen to it a bit louder than AMP4 (10 clicks louder), which kind of didn't make sense at first but... I think signature aside the sheer headroom and dynamics of AMP8 is definitely the key highlight of this AMP design.

I think I am listening louder because dynamics are much wider. Low level detail is just amazing, but it's true as well of high level detail which makes what usually would be shrill when louder just a smooth listening experience. Everything is more progressive *and* reactive or fast (for lack of better words). Listen to tracks with piano to forte and vice versa and you'll see. Last but not least for each note, note density is varying through "finer steps" it's much more rich in how it's rendered. Think of it as there are much more colors nuances to paint the picture. I think it explains why stage depth and Z axis cue is also such a treat. Decay is very interesting, it can be slower when called for but faster when it's appropriate. I have trouble putting this into words (@Whitigir might be of help here) as it's not something often discussed but it's really distinctive.

I have fond memories of the ZX2 and WM1A for the same distinctive qualities, but AMP8 surpasses both IMHO in that respect. It has an analog feel to it...

This is why I described the AMP8 as a complex amp. It is hard to put everything in place with words but for me it does everything right.

 

[Signal2Noise]

This is why I described the AMP8 as a complex amp. It is hard to put everything in place with words but for me it does everything right.

I'm pretty sure iBasso's internal long-name for AMP8 is "AMP8EveryOtherAmpForBreakfast"

 

[cathee]

I know the amps are super new and realistically even the people who have it on hand probably don't have them burned in yet, but any initial impressions on AMP7 vs AMP8?

I'm keen to dive into the 4.4mm eco-system but it is a considerable leap (new cables = $$$, re-terminating my fave headphones from 3.5mm to 4.4mm = $$$ + time) as well as most "over the counter" headphones/earphones will still be 3.5mm... But given all the praise (maybe new toy hype... EDIT: definitely ) I've *very* tempted.

 

[Whitigir]

Next development Amp10 (a 4.4mm balanced amp Module with not only discrete components but with the highest precision tolerances *audio Grade* Resistors) completely revised.

Then Amp 12 is similar to 10 with Nanoscale Vacuum channel Transistors (NVCT) technology. You read it, it is Nano - Tubes

https://spectrum.ieee.org/semicondu...he-vacuum-transistor-a-device-made-of-nothing
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanoscale_vacuum-channel_transistor
http://www.eenewseurope.com/news/back-vacuum-tubes-nanoscale

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2015/01/29/korg-noritake-introduce-futuristic-nutube-vacuum-tubes/

Then Amp 14 is Nano - Tubes of Audio grade

Then Amp 16 is Removable Nano - Tubes

Then Dx300 arrives, and we start over again

Ok, enough fun, I can not appreciate Ibasso enough for what they are doing for us. Thank you!

 

[natemact]

Is there a thread that explains DSD in very simple terms? Or can anyone here do it?
No excessive tech talk please, nice and simple.. really simple
I'm sure others are wondering the same thing lol

1) I genuinely have no idea about what DSD512 is? (e.g. in relation to FLAC); can you buy tracks/albums natively in this format?

2) What's PCM and DSF? How do they relate to DSD?

3) a standard CD, as far as I know, can only be converted into a 16/44 FLAC file (without any upscaling).
So are you saying a CD can be converted into DSD512? Or I misread and you are talking about blu-ray to DSD, or something completely different?

Sorry, I made the leap from mp3 to FLAC, and have about a quarter of my music in 24/* FLAC, but I don't really have a clue about the world of DSD, and didn't expect that I'd need to for another few years.
But reading these comments (with, I admit, a modest amount of healthy skepticism), has made me want to try it for myself, but I don't understand most of what has been said or where to begin simply

I don't want to derail the thread. Having said that, this is something that is being discussed about using DSD512 on the DX200, so I guess it's not that irrelevant lol.

I see you got some help but considering #1 I figured a light technical approach should help.

My apologies if this is redundant to you but considering your in the dark on DSD (64, 128, 512) that tells me a brief PCM refresher is key first.

In order to record/play a PCM file the adc/dac must take "snap shots" (samples) of the info and put them all together to create a song. These snap shots for CD quality are taken 44,100 times a second (hence 44.1kHz).

Also, every time a sample is taken, it's receives information captured in the song. These are called bits. In regards to CD files, 16 bits of info are processed every snap shot.

1 bit is equivalent to ~6dB of dynamic range so CD files will have ~96dB of dynamic range....perceived DR can actually be much higher (~120dB or more) through the use of noise-shaped dithering but I've only included this for those that might call me out on the ~96dB limit.

DSD is the very similar to PCM in that it's still taking samples and there's still bit depth but.....DSD64 is taking 2,822,400 samples/second where DSD512 taking 22,579,200 samples. 512 times the sample rate of 44.1kHz PCM files.

Because DSD takes multiple times more samples than PCM it doesn't need multiple bits in every sample. Hope this makes sense. DSD (64,128,512) has only 1 bit per sample, but this allows DSD to possess at least 120dB of dynamic range.

Why does any of this matter? Well for starters there's the Nyquist Theorem, which states that in order to faithfully reproduce the original file the minimum number of sample rates needed is twice the highest frequency in the signal. Because humans can theoretically hear up to 20kHz, 44.1kHz sample rate was the standard. You may be thinking the math doesn't add up, I guess he wanted a buffer with the extra 1000.

So if the Nyquist Theorem is the target then why bother with 96kHz, 768kHz or DSD512? Because he was wrong hahaha. No not really. On paper his theory holds true but in practice...well you can hear it for yourself.

But why? I drew some diagrams on paper for you....wait...his theory holds true on paper! Crap! Well let's give it a shot anyway : ) So very not to scale. Just for 'splaining purposes


An analog waveform here with a sample rate of 44.1kHz. You can think of every red line as a sample. Like I mentioned, so far from scale.



You can see, 44.1kHz cannot reproduce the original signal exactly. What our dacs have to do is actually "fill in" the missing information, which can lead to deficiencies in many of the parameters we use to discuss gear ie: resolution, timbre, SS technicalities, you get it.

DSD's samples are so much more frequent that you end up with - exaggerated for discussion purposes - a much smoother waveform, no steps, less information to "guess"......I guess

Hope this helped. Please don't tell me you already knew all this and I just : )

 

[natemact]

Next development Amp10 (a 4.4mm balanced amp Module with not only discrete components but with the highest precision tolerances *audio Grade* Resistors) completely revised.

Then Amp 12 is similar to 10 with Nanoscale Vacuum channel Transistors (NVCT) technology. You read it, it is Nano - Tubes

https://spectrum.ieee.org/semicondu...he-vacuum-transistor-a-device-made-of-nothing
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanoscale_vacuum-channel_transistor
http://www.eenewseurope.com/news/back-vacuum-tubes-nanoscale

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2015/01/29/korg-noritake-introduce-futuristic-nutube-vacuum-tubes/

Then Amp 14 is Nano - Tubes of Audio grade

Then Amp 16 is Removable Nano - Tubes

Then Dx300 arrives, and we start over again

Ok, enough fun, I can not appreciate Ibasso enough for what they are doing for us. Thank you!

Ya, interested to read and hopefully get to hear soon enough Cayin's use of these. Too much love for Ibasso here though. I'd like to think I'll stick with them throughout future dap purchases.

 

[twister6]

For those who posted their AMP8 impressions, relative to AMP4, are you running Lurker's or stock fw? After 24hrs of burn in (on a charger, max volume, iBasso's burn-in balanced cable with CA02 4.4mm adapter, playing hi-res file on repeat), I do hear AMP8 with deeper sub-bass rumble and harder hitting mid-bass punch, it's noticeable but not really an extreme night'n'day difference, and I still have to wait and see how it sounds after 100+ hrs. But, I'm using Lurker's fw, and also remember reading someone's comment (maybe it was in dx150 thread) where they noticed a reduction in bass "boominess" after switching from stock to Lurker's optimized fw. Thus, I'm curious.

Another interesting observation, while you can hot-plug AMP8 without powering down DX200 after removing AMP4, going the other way (removing AMP8 to plug AMP4) - triggers some internal reset and shuts down DX200, probably as a safety precaution. Obviously, AMP swap is not intended to be hot-plugged and it's recommended to power down the DAP, but I find it convenient for comparison when you can listen to AMP4 and quickly swap to AMP8 within seconds to continue a/b without waiting to power down/up.

And speaking of amp swapping, here comes iBasso JENGA edition!!!

 

[Slim1970]

For those who posted their AMP8 impressions, relative to AMP4, are you running Lurker's or stock fw? After 24hrs of burn in (on a charger, max volume, iBasso's burn-in balanced cable with CA02 4.4mm adapter, playing hi-res file on repeat), I do hear AMP8 with deeper sub-bass rumble and harder hitting mid-bass punch, it's noticeable but not really an extreme night'n'day difference, and I still have to wait and see how it sounds after 100+ hrs. But, I'm using Lurker's fw, and also remember reading someone's comment (maybe it was in dx150 thread) where they noticed a reduction in bass "boominess" after switching from stock to Lurker's optimized fw. Thus, I'm curious.

Another interesting observation, while you can hot-plug AMP8 without powering down DX200 after removing AMP4, going the other way (removing AMP8 to plug AMP4) - triggers some internal reset and shuts down DX200, probably as a safety precaution. Obviously, AMP swap is not intended to be hot-plugged and it's recommended to power down the DAP, but I find it convenient for comparison when you can listen to AMP4 and quickly swap to AMP8 within seconds to continue a/b without waiting to power down/up.

And speaking of amp swapping, here comes iBasso JENGA edition!!!

Impressive!

 

[davidmolliere]

For those who posted their AMP8 impressions, relative to AMP4, are you running Lurker's or stock fw?

Stock firmware for me, I should give lurker a try, never got down to it!

Look forward to your review of AMP7/8

 

[Signal2Noise]

...

And speaking of amp swapping, here comes iBasso JENGA edition!!!

Challenge: try stacking the screwdrivers.

 

[natemact]

For those who posted their AMP8 impressions, relative to AMP4, are you running Lurker's or stock fw? After 24hrs of burn in (on a charger, max volume, iBasso's burn-in balanced cable with CA02 4.4mm adapter, playing hi-res file on repeat), I do hear AMP8 with deeper sub-bass rumble and harder hitting mid-bass punch, it's noticeable but not really an extreme night'n'day difference, and I still have to wait and see how it sounds after 100+ hrs. But, I'm using Lurker's fw, and also remember reading someone's comment (maybe it was in dx150 thread) where they noticed a reduction in bass "boominess" after switching from stock to Lurker's optimized fw. Thus, I'm curious.

Another interesting observation, while you can hot-plug AMP8 without powering down DX200 after removing AMP4, going the other way (removing AMP8 to plug AMP4) - triggers some internal reset and shuts down DX200, probably as a safety precaution. Obviously, AMP swap is not intended to be hot-plugged and it's recommended to power down the DAP, but I find it convenient for comparison when you can listen to AMP4 and quickly swap to AMP8 within seconds to continue a/b without waiting to power down/up.

And speaking of amp swapping, here comes iBasso JENGA edition!!!

Mango OS is extremely quick too boot up comparatively, also sounds best, bettering Mango player, UAPP, Neutron, Hiby player in these ears.

 

[Layman1]

Gotta catch 'em all!

And for the record, I'm using the stock FW (latest update)

 

[Tennessee]

For me too mango OS on lurkers FW is absolutely the best.

 

[Shecky504]

For those who posted their AMP8 impressions, relative to AMP4, are you running Lurker's or stock fw? After 24hrs of burn in (on a charger, max volume, iBasso's burn-in balanced cable with CA02 4.4mm adapter, playing hi-res file on repeat), I do hear AMP8 with deeper sub-bass rumble and harder hitting mid-bass punch, it's noticeable but not really an extreme night'n'day difference, and I still have to wait and see how it sounds after 100+ hrs. But, I'm using Lurker's fw, and also remember reading someone's comment (maybe it was in dx150 thread) where they noticed a reduction in bass "boominess" after switching from stock to Lurker's optimized fw. Thus, I'm curious.

Another interesting observation, while you can hot-plug AMP8 without powering down DX200 after removing AMP4, going the other way (removing AMP8 to plug AMP4) - triggers some internal reset and shuts down DX200, probably as a safety precaution. Obviously, AMP swap is not intended to be hot-plugged and it's recommended to power down the DAP, but I find it convenient for comparison when you can listen to AMP4 and quickly swap to AMP8 within seconds to continue a/b without waiting to power down/up.

And speaking of amp swapping, here comes iBasso JENGA edition!!!

I'm running Lurker's FW using Neutron Player and UAPP.