Dubstep Girl's Massive 5AR4/5R4/5U4G Rectifier Review/Comparison! (Rectifer Tube Rolling thread)
Sep 1, 2022 at 11:45 PM Post #2,326 of 2,672
Tonight's battle:

Silver Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/Elrog 5U4G vs. Black Woo Audio WA6-SE Gen 2 w/ Brimar 5Z4GY (A.K.A. "Chernobyl").

Driver tubes are identical quads - GE 13EM7's. DAC's are identical Musician Pegasuses (Pegasus) w/Synergistic Research Purple Fuses. Cable is Norne Audio Solvine in High output jacks. Headphones are ZMF Atrium LTD Bubinga.

FIGHT!

20220901_191229.jpg
In this corner….[Ref: ‘OK gentlemen, let’s have a good, clean fight…’]
 
Sep 1, 2022 at 11:53 PM Post #2,327 of 2,672
Ok, Initial thoughts:

1) All things being equal (except for the Rectifier), I do hear a difference, and it's more than just minor
2) The difference boils down to one word - "weight" The Elrog simply imparts more heft behind everything. My examples (All music is from Tidal > USB > Pegasuses > Woos):

a. Beethoven Symphony No. 9 in D Minor Op. 125 "Choral" - IV. Finale - Presto (Pittsburg Symphony Orchestra w/ the Mendelsson Choir of Pittsburgh)
--- The opening of this movement with the cellos (after the timpani) really rings "true", with natural reverb echoing in the hall where the recording was done. With the Brimar you don't get the same resonance of the cello bodies, the bowing isn't as present, and the brass overpowers the strings.
--- The Brimar does a fine job with this piece, to a point. It doesn't have the same sense of presence with the lower instruments and the midrange tends to be a bit thin. Brass is a bit brighter due to having not have to work through the strength presented in the low end. Because of this, it can be a touch fatiguing (not shrill, just harsh).
b. Chick Corea - My Spanish Heart - "Spanish Fantasy pt. 4" - The key here is the piano and drums under the heavy use of synthesizers and brass. With the Brimar, it becomes very cluttered and mushy. The Elrog has enough "Oomph" to cleanly push it all through without becoming cloudy.
c. Whitney Houston - "I Will Always Love You" - The richness of her lower register just fills out divinely on the Elrog. On the Brimar, it's ok, but you KNOW you're listening to a recording. It's very flat. The recording is full of wide open studio space. The Elrog shows it off nicely. The Brimar feels boxed in. Too close.
d. ZZ Top - "Sure Got Cold After the Rain Fell" - A personal favorite of mine - this track is great for electric/blues guitar as well as Billy Gibbon's voice. It's a very close recording, and there's a certain timbre to his voice that comes through on the track. The guitar can be very harsh because of it's closeness as well, but rings true. This track is a fantastic example of something that sounds live on one tube and like a recording on another.
e. Mortal Kombat (2022) Soundtrack - "Techno Syndrome (Mortal Kombat)" - If you want to punish a tube, this is it. LOTS of stuff going on here to push the strength of your tube to the max. The Brimar just runs out of steam and becomes very muddy. The Elrog handles it all with finesse. Towards the middle of the track the voiceunder is announcing the fighter names, and they just come through loud and clear on the Elrog. On the Brimar they're barely audible.

I could go on, but you get the point. Your standard Brimar isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination, but I do genuinely feel that the Elrogs are in a class of their own. YMMV. Should you go out and spend $600+ vs. a $50 Brimar? That's for you and your wallet to decide. Is there ten times the improvement? No. Is there enough improvement that if money isn't the deciding factor, then I say go for it. But then again we all know I'm a touch crazy, so....

Winner: Elrog 5U4G

Word of note - do NOT use an Elrog 274B in a Woo Audio WA5-LE. Something about plate voltage makes them not compatible. Don't know if the same holds true with the WA6-SE, but I'm not about to risk it.
Thank you, so ! Really informative ! Gravitas, heft, force are important to me - not only in pianoforte but in pianissimo. To me, these add significant realism to the illusion brought by reproduced music. I will be joining the parts connexion queue 😏
 
Sep 2, 2022 at 7:15 AM Post #2,328 of 2,672
Thank you, so ! Really informative ! Gravitas, heft, force are important to me - not only in pianoforte but in pianissimo. To me, these add significant realism to the illusion brought by reproduced music. I will be joining the parts connexion queue 😏
I think because their 5U4G architecture is so different than other traditional designs it just sounds better. Tonally, they're about the same, but it's the weight behind everything that just cleans it up and prevents it from sounding thick and chalky.
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 9:34 PM Post #2,329 of 2,672
Got elrog 5u4G's recently but unfortunately they wouldn't work in my amp. The amp looked ridiculous with all 4 elrog tubes in it lol

 
Sep 27, 2022 at 9:36 PM Post #2,330 of 2,672
Got elrog 5u4G's recently but unfortunately they wouldn't work in my amp. The amp looked ridiculous with all 4 elrog tubes in it lol

Does the amp normally take 5U4G's? Do you need 274B's instead? My Woo WA5-LE had the opposite problem. Choked on the Elrog 274B but loves the 5U4G...
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 9:38 PM Post #2,331 of 2,672
Does the amp normally take 5U4G's? Do you need 274B's instead? My Woo WA5-LE had the opposite problem. Choked on the Elrog 274B but loves the 5U4G...
Odd isn't it. But your Woo plays with other 274B, right? IIRC it was a rating issue with the power supply where some 274B are incompatible.
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 9:45 PM Post #2,332 of 2,672
Got elrog 5u4G's recently but unfortunately they wouldn't work in my amp. The amp looked ridiculous with all 4 elrog tubes in it lol

That poor little nonal tube…..
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 9:47 PM Post #2,333 of 2,672
Odd isn't it. But your Woo plays with other 274B, right? IIRC it was a rating issue with the power supply where some 274B are incompatible.
My Woo eats every other 274B I've thrown at it without an issue (Sophia Princess, EML, Takatsuki) as well as the litney of others (Brimar 5U4GB, Mighty 596, 5996, etc.) It was ONLY the Elrog 274B that flashed out on me. Instantly. Could be bad tubes (you know the Elrog curse), but I think it's the draw.
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 9:49 PM Post #2,334 of 2,672
My Woo eats every other 274B I've thrown at it without an issue (Sophia Princess, EML, Takatsuki) as well as the litney of others (Brimar 5U4GB, Mighty 596, 5996, etc.) It was ONLY the Elrog 274B that flashed out on me. Instantly. Could be bad tubes (you know the Elrog curse), but I think it's the draw.
Eh, that's ok. 274B is below the 5U4G so it was fate.
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 9:49 PM Post #2,335 of 2,672
Odd isn't it. But your Woo plays with other 274B, right? IIRC it was a rating issue with the power supply where some 274B are incompatible.

These days everyone makes up their own tube specs, but the original WE 274B was 2A filament current while the 5U4 needs 3A.
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 9:51 PM Post #2,336 of 2,672
These days everyone makes up their own tube specs, but the original WE 274B was 2A filament current while the 5U4 needs 3A.
That's a little different. This is why 274B isn't a replacement for 5U4G. But many years ago 274B were causing Woo amps to arc.
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 9:53 PM Post #2,337 of 2,672
Elrog 274B Specs:

ELROG 274B Rectifier Tube

Thoriated Tungsten Filament 274B equivalent rectifier. Meets all 274B standard electrical specifications

ER274B

Filament Voltage .................................................................5 V
Filament Current .................................................................2 A
Peak Inverse Voltage .....................................................1500 V
Peak Current per Plate .................................................675 mA
DC Output Current (L-Input) ......................................225 mA
DC Output Current (C-Input) ......................................160 mA


Elrog 5U4G Specs:

ER5U4G

Filament Voltage .................................................................5 V
Filament Current .................................................................3 A
Peak Inverse Voltage .....................................................1550 V
Peak Current per Plate ........................................................1 A
DC Output Current (L-Input) ......................................275 mA
DC Output Current (C-Input) ......................................275 mA



Octal base
 
Sep 27, 2022 at 9:56 PM Post #2,338 of 2,672
5U4G spec:

http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/5u4g.pdf

1664330215170.png

http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/5u4g.pdf
 
Sep 28, 2022 at 2:07 AM Post #2,340 of 2,672
Thomas is going to step in and address their operation parameters.
 

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