[Pianist]

And I mean quality, not quantity. The quantity is fine with a good fit IMO. It's the quality that seems a little strange to me. It's not that it lacks detail or definition, but that there seems to be some grain in the upper ranges. This applies to both ER4P as well as the ER4S, although the latter is certainly more extended, refined and detailed in the highs. I also heard a very similar character in the highs on the Ortofon IEMs. I am wondering if this is a limitation of a single driver BA design, the way the IEMs are tuned, a fit issue or source issue or whatever. The highs basically have a rough quality to them to my ears. Grainy may be a good word to describe them, but I can also say etched, noisy, or even distorted. When comparing to a high quality dynamic driver headphone (I compare to my Fischer Audio FA-003), the latter sounds more delicate and I don't get that sense of grain, that rough quality in the highs that I do with the ER4. Sometimes though, I don't notice this issue for some reason and the highs sound fine. At other times, it is very apparent. This seems to depend largely on fit, the recording and the source used, but especially the fit. I never noticed this problem on any dynamic driver IEM or multi drivers, however, no matter how bad the fit or source was.
 
I am wondering how many other people hear something similar on their ER4.

 

[Spyro]

Funny you mention the graininess issue.  I actually find the Grado GR8 (and to a lesser degree the GR10) treble slightly grainy but it is smoother and more natural and buttery. 
 
To me the ER4 treble was always too razor sharp and a bit un-natural.  Like the decay is too short or something.  While I certainly like my treble and detail in general, it needs to have a smoothness or liquidity to it.  I think Westone does this very well with their high end IEM's.

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

Funny you mention the graininess issue.  I actually find the Grado GR8 (and to a lesser degree the GR10) treble slightly grainy but it is smoother and more natural and buttery. 
 
To me the ER4 treble was always too razor sharp and a bit un-natural.  Like the decay is too short or something.  While I certainly like my treble and detail in general, it needs to have a smoothness or liquidity to it.  I think Westone does this very well with their high end IEM's.

Yes, the GR8 and GR10 are based on the same moving armature driver as the Ortofons, so I would expect them to have the same issues with the treble. I think the ER4 does treble better than moving armatures though - it is more detailed. But I do hear that strange grain at times that is really annoying. I hope it's just a fit issue.
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Yes sir.  As I mentioned before the ER4P really grated my ears after more than 2 songs.  ER4S really smoothed it out so I didn't have a problem but the 'sonic character' was the same.  I really liked the ER4S but in the end I actually thought the DBA highs were more fluid but with even more sparkle and clarity up top.  I could not cohabitate w/ the 'P' unless I had the 602 at the time which I didn't.

 

[Pianist]

Ok, I listened to ER4p with tri flanges yesterday and I must say that with these tips, the highs sounded just fine. They weren't exactly ultra smooth, but I did not hear most of that grain. Before I was mostly using single flanges. So I think that this may be a fit related issue. And while the highs may not be the greatest on the ER4P even with a good fit, the bass and mids are unbelievable. The realism of vocals is better than on anything else I've ever heard other than maybe Shure SE530 and the HD800. Especially the female vocals sound as though the singer is right there in the room with me - I can hear every vibration of her vocal cords.The bass is the best I've ever heard, period. Perfect, impact, definition and extension. Oh and the soundstage - whoa! Probably the best I've ever hear in an IEM. It seems to extend really far in all dimensions - it is tall, wide and deep.

 

[VirtualMan]

I don't have the ER4's but I do have the HF5's and the most balanced, smoothest sound to me comes from having the drivers as close to the eardrum as possible. Unfortunately, the small tri-flanges hurt my ears after about 1 hour and I can't get a good fit with the large tri-flanges. They choke off the volume and dull the sound.
 
I am now trying the glider tips jammed in deep and they seem to be more comfortable and provide very good sound if the seal is good. As far as grainy sound, my experience is that with a shallow fit, you get more shrillness in the highs and less balance to the sound. Tried the Shure olives and didn't particularly like the sound with those but they were very comfortable.
 
These IEM's offer a very stark sound. The instrument timbre and separation is top notch. They almost make the music sound un-mixed if that makes sense. Most people are used to a very blended sound and these are the opposite of that.
 

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

I don't have the ER4's but I do have the HF5's and the most balanced, smoothest sound to me comes from having the drivers as close to the eardrum as possible. Unfortunately, the small tri-flanges hurt my ears after about 1 hour and I can't get a good fit with the large tri-flanges. They choke off the volume and dull the sound.
 
I am now trying the glider tips jammed in deep and they seem to be more comfortable and provide very good sound if the seal is good. As far as grainy sound, my experience is that with a shallow fit, you get more shrillness in the highs and less balance to the sound. Tried the Shure olives and didn't particularly like the sound with those but they were very comfortable.
 
These IEM's offer a very stark sound. The instrument timbre and separation is top notch. They almost make the music sound un-mixed if that makes sense. Most people are used to a very blended sound and these are the opposite of that.
 

 

I would call the Ety sound extremely clean and yet very coherent, thanks to only one driver being used. Most headphones will sound muddy by comparison.
 

 

[VirtualMan]

Coherent is accurate. No crossover to mess it up.  I personally LOVE to hear all the details of what I'm listening to. I get great pleasure in hearing excellent sonics. I was a musician for many years and listened to enough audiophile equipment to know develop and ear. (It's a curse sometimes).
 
If someone hasn't heard audiophile equipment, they would be taken aback by these these. They are the best I have heard for the money. The Coppers I had sounded muddy compared to these. S4's - Muddy, PFE's were not muddy but a bit too bright for my tastes. The black filters tamed this but with a loss of clarity.
 

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

Coherent is accurate. No crossover to mess it up.  I personally LOVE to hear all the details of what I'm listening to. I get great pleasure in hearing excellent sonics. I was a musician for many years and listened to enough audiophile equipment to know develop and ear. (It's a curse sometimes).
 
If someone hasn't heard audiophile equipment, they would be taken aback by these these. They are the best I have heard for the money. The Coppers I had sounded muddy compared to these. S4's - Muddy, PFE's were not muddy but a bit too bright for my tastes. The black filters tamed this but with a loss of clarity.
 

They are the best I've heard, period. Better than IEMs costing hundreds of dollars more to my ears.
 
If there is such thing as fake detail, PFE is the one that has it IMO. It appears detailed because it sounds very clean and bright in tone, but also lacks a lot of micro detail/texture. People think that they hear a lot of detail with it when in fact, the lack of micro detail just makes it easier to focus on macro detail IMO. ER4 blows PFE away in detail resolution and timbre accuracy to my ears - no contest.

 

[Tone Seeker]

Quote:

Coherent is accurate. No crossover to mess it up.  I personally LOVE to hear all the details of what I'm listening to. I get great pleasure in hearing excellent sonics. I was a musician for many years and listened to enough audiophile equipment to know develop and ear. (It's a curse sometimes).
 
If someone hasn't heard audiophile equipment, they would be taken aback by these these. They are the best I have heard for the money. <snip>

I'm looking for an IEM that I can use both on-stage (I play electric guitar) and for personal, remote listening on my iPhone 4. I use near-field monitors (DynAudio) at home for general listening and as monitors for my guitar processor.
 
I have never used IEM's before. Ideally, I can find one to cover both purposes, and one that will present my guitar tones in a manner similar to that of my near-field's. I have been thinking about the ER4's and the new universal Sensaphonics j-phones.
 
Any comments on how well the ER4's would suit my needs?
 
Thanks.
 
Terry.

 

[VirtualMan]

Yes, I know you are not enamored with the PFE from your other posts. (I lurk a lot). But, compared to what I had hear up until the HF5's, I tended to like them. Now, not so much. They are VERY comfortable though with excellent silicon tips and a shallow insertion. Wish the HF5's were more like that in the comfort department.
 
I've been considering the custom tip program for these but I heard that they are a fairly shallow fit and I'm afraid the sound won't be as good.

 

[GreatDane]

@ Pianist, what are your thoughts with foam tips?

 

[VirtualMan]

Quote:

@ Pianist, what are your thoughts with foam tips?

Sorry, I'm not Pianist, but I forgot to mention that I did try the foam tips. I thought they sounded pretty good if jammed in deep. They seemed to lose the seal though after they wear a bit and I am trying to avoid always replacing tips. I also bought some from Earplug Superstore and think they were fake. The solid cores were a different material and the adhesive came right off and separated from the core easily. The ones that came with my IEM's did not.
 
 

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

Yes, the GR8 and GR10 are based on the same moving armature driver as the Ortofons, so I would expect them to have the same issues with the treble. I think the ER4 does treble better than moving armatures though - it is more detailed. But I do hear that strange grain at times that is really annoying. I hope it's just a fit issue.
 

They're not the same driver. Different materials, windings etc. It;s like saying all BAs or dynamics are alike. They may or may not be grainy but they're different. Spyro found the GR10 subltley grainy so that's valid but projecting a characteristic from one phone to another is not. If someone thinks they sound the same after a listen, fine but if you haven't heard them....I find my GR10s as grainy as the source I'm using. They vary from sweet to etched depending. I did find the er4p too etched for my liking and preferred the HF5 even if it wasn't as informative. Both are colder and less textured in character to my Grado. Not enough time with a 4s to have an opinion. I also wasn't taken by the PFE. Preferred the balance with black filters as the mids lined up better but just not solid enough for me. Find the highs of a Q-jay too much to deal with.
 

 

[ahmadmfz]

Pianist, i was at a crossroads between the ER4s and the DBAs prior to my purchase of the DBAs. I chose the DBAs cause the highs are much more, uhh, fluid/smooth? But with lots of sparkle and clarity, which i liked. The ER4s were very good though. I just chose the DBAs over it due to the DBAs having a more livelier and energetic sound.
 
And yes i do agree that if not amped properly the highs of the ER4 can be abit grainy.