[ILikeMusic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipodstudio Kind of. Why should members here setup an extensive test costing much time and money in order to prove to someone else something which they have already proved to themselves whilst listening to the cable? Just buy it, listen to it, and if it does nothing for your sytem then sell it. If it does to your system what it does to mine, keep it if you like the effect.

Ah, but if you haven't proven anything, even to yourself, if you haven't blind tested. Until you do it is quite possible that the difference you sense is purely psychological. I'm not sure why people have such a difficult time with this simple concept... it's certainly no shame as susceptibility to subjective psychological influences is a perfectly natural human trait, that's why procedures have been developed to help eliminate it. The only shame is not realizing the need to follow those procedures in order to come to a definitive conclusion (meaning one that is true for all individuals, not just one).

But I do agree with you in that if, for whatever reason, you truly believe that your Zu really makes a difference then I guess you are getting something for your money.

 

[cecirdr]

Welll said Langrath.

I've stayed out of this discussion because I haven't tried new cables yet. My headphone/amp kit came with a cardas cable, but it's backordered for now. Right now I really like the sound with my hd650's and the stock cable, plus since the cardas was part of the kit, I don't feel that I have a preference for the cardas cable to be better....or even different for that matter. When it comes in, I'll try it out. If I like it I'll keep it. If I don't hear any difference, I'll sell it to someone who can tell the difference. (or thinks they can)

Ceci

 

[Langrath]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tortie In the cables forum anyway, where this thread should be in

I don't agree. Cable forum is to discuss different cables for those that already are convinced that there is a difference in sound between cables. It would be as asking the pope if he believes in God.

Georg

 

[JohnFerrier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch Construction of the Sennheiser HD-600 stock cable is a very thin Litz wire braid. I'm talking hair-thin here.

Yep, and that is *more* than adequate. To drive the 600's to 103dB (which will cause hearing damage if listened to continuously), all that is required is 3.3mA. A very tiny 32AWG wire, with a diameter of 0.008", will handle 320mA. Copper is a *very* good conductor of electricity.


JF

 

[JohnFerrier]

AKG and Sennheiser have researched microphones and headphones for decades. Though there is a lucrative market for something relatively easy to manufacture, they do not sell Zu-style cables for a reason. They *do not* make a difference. It's impossible. Enjoy your systems otherwise.


JF

 

[ILikeMusic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFerrier A very tiny 32AWG wire, with a diameter of 0.008", will handle 320mA.

Ah, but will it convey adequate 'soundstage'..?

Sorry, couldn't resist, I'm bad...

 

[rodbac]

Quote:

Running that cable over 3 m is going to muck with the signal. My guess is that it should be measurable with decent equipment.

Absolutely wrong. Wire that thin most certainly will not muck with the signal, will be WAAAAAY more than adequate, and it will not even be close to measurable.

If your Cardas cable sounds different, it's purely psychological OR the Cardas cable is fcking with the signal.

edit: JF beat me to it...

 

[saint.panda]

If headphone cables don't make a difference then how do you explain how two persons can hear the same sonical characteristics of a cable without telling each other beforehand? I've listened to JaZZ own magnet wire cable without ANY knowledge on it beforehand and told him what I heard. He confirmed what I said and I don't see why he would tell anything other than what he's hearing everyday. Did it sound different? Yes. Better? Yes, better than the stock cable.
From a scientific point of view I did not believe in cable differences. I thought that conductors are conductors and the small differences in their impedances is marginal compared to the input or output impedances of the players/amps. I guess hearing is believing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFerrier AKG and Sennheiser have researched microphones and headphones for decades. Though there is a lucrative market for something relatively easy to manufacture, they do not sell Zu-style cables for a reason. They *do not* make a difference. It's impossible. Enjoy your systems otherwise. JF

The analogy here would be Mercedes and AMG. It's a completely different target group. Sennheiser doesn't specifically aim at the highend audio sector, which is only a relatively small market

 

[rodbac]

Quote:

If headphone cables don't make a difference then can you explain how two persons are hearing the same sonical characteristics of a cable without telling each other beforehand?

Quote:

If your Cardas cable sounds different, it's purely psychological OR the Cardas cable is fcking with the signal.

Would most people report similar things if the treble knob was cranked a few notches to the left?

 

[cecirdr]

Wasn't the original question if the replacement cables made a *difference*? Perhaps they ARE mucking with the signal, but that would make a difference right? Sure....it'd be like an EQ, but it takes up less space.

I don't think I can speak to improvement (because I haven't tried a different cable yet and because "improvement" is in the eye of the beholder). But as to hearing a *difference*, surely that's easy to discern. ...even without double blind tests.

Sorry if I'm too new to highend headphones and the audiophile industry to contribute relevant info.

Ceci

 

[markl]

Quote:

If your Cardas cable sounds different, it's purely psychological OR the Cardas cable is fcking with the signal.

rodbac, you seem finally to accept that cables make a difference. You seem to have come to accept that there is an audible difference in the sound between stock cables and the aftermarket cables as reported consistently by listeners the world over year after year. Great!

But you then make a logical leap *assuming* that it's the aftermarket cables, not the Senn stock cable that is "mucking" with the sound. It's like that that old Dire Straits song: "Two men say they're Jesus / One of them must be wrong."

Either way, each cable is most definitely "mucking with the sound", *including the stock cable*. The only "ideal cable" is the one that's simply not there, as it is, we are limited at this time to using electrical conductors of some kind (copper/silver) of some geometry, with some kind of shielding/jacket, and some kind of connector to transmit the sound. There are hundreds of different aftermarket cable brands, each with a unique combination of parts and design, each unique in its own way, and therefore *different*. All those things are in the signal path, all will leave some footprint, however small, all to some degree audible.

In the absence of telepathically beamed audio streams emitted directly from a source to our brains, we are stuck with cables in the signal path. I don't think there is an objective "right" way to design a cable, or 100% "perfect" cable design that is literally "invisible" as if it wasn't there in the material world. There are only varying degrees of "less wrong". Aftermarket cables, in general, can be "less wrong" than cheapie stock cables. Hearing is believing.

To summarize: you think the aftermarket cables that you've *never heard* are just plain wrong, while people who've heard both cables, feel the stock cable is more wrong. End of debate.

 

[Kurt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipodstudio Just buy it, listen to it, and if it does nothing for your sytem then sell it.

System? What System? Those are all entry level minimalism Setups:
-----------
rodbac:
Headphone Inventory:
Grado SR-80s --> Senn HD-280 Pros --> now looking for Senn HD 580s and an amp

Headphone Amp Inventory:
Super Mini, Corda HA-1

No source?
-------------
ILikeMusic:
Headphone Inventory:
Own or have owned: Senn HD-580, Senn HD-590, Sony V900, Sony EX71, Shure E5, Etymotics ER4P, Etymotics ER6i

Headphone Amp Inventory:
Home-built CMOY

Source Inventory:
Creative Zen MP3 player, Sony D-121 'vintage' PCDP

Cable Inventory:
With respect to headphones..? Whatever came with the product, anything else is a waste of money.


---------------
With a Setup like that I would not hear a difference in cables.

ILikeMusic and rodbac et al: [size=medium]Read the topic![/size] Do you have anything to say about the topics question? If not, stop thread crapping.

 

[rodbac]

Quote:

rodbac, you seem finally to accept that cables make a difference.

Quote:

But you then make a logical leap *assuming* that it's the aftermarket cables, not the Senn stock cable that is "mucking" with the sound.

Have you read ANY of my posts?

Quote:

Either way, each cable is most definitely "mucking with the sound", *including the stock cable*.

WRONG. You have to WORK at it to "muck" with the sound.

Quote:

The only "ideal cable" is the one that's simply not there, as it is, we are limited at this time to using electrical conductors of some kind (copper/silver) of some geometry, with some kind of shielding/jacket, and some kind of connector to transmit the sound. There are hundreds of different aftermarket cable brands, each with a unique combination of parts and design, each unique in its own way, and therefore *different*. All those things are in the signal path, all will leave some footprint, however small, all to some degree audible.

Quote:

I don't think there is an objective "right" way to design a cable, or 100% "perfect" cable design that is literally "invisible" as if it wasn't there in the material world.

You're demonstrating a vapid misunderstanding of the concept that I've repeated over and over and over in this thread. A wire won't be able to help but get the signal across 10 feet without affecting it in any significant way. I can't say it any more clearly for you. If you still don't grasp that, I suggest you go do some reading.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac Would most people report similar things if the treble knob was cranked a few notches to the left?

You mean my cable sounds darker than the stock cable? That's not the case. It's even more brilliant. For some reason you're so obsessed with the idea that IF any cable makes the HD 600/650 sound different than with the stock cable it must color the sound, whereas the stock cable is absolutely neutral, of course...

Try to read your own posts from a certain distance, and you'll see that your idea has arisen from a biased point of view.

 

[cecirdr]

Are we working on a question of whether the aftermarket cables are "better" than the stock sennheiser or the question of simply whether they're different sonically than the stock cable?

I see two questions getting bantered around here. One presupposing that there's a *better* cable design than the stock sennheiser cable and the other simply wondering whether there's any sonic *differences* between the stock and aftermarket cables.

So...which one are we focusing on here?

Ceci