[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac A wire won't be able to help but get the signal across 10 feet without affecting it in any significant way. I can't say it any more clearly for you. If you still don't grasp that, I suggest you go do some reading.

Maybe I can ask my physics professor whether he can snatch some of those superconducting wires (plus the magnets and fridge) used for the new accelerator at CERN. Then we could use that as a definite reference point.

 

[rodbac]

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Originally Posted by cecirdr Are we working on a question of whether the aftermarket cables are "better" than the stock sennheiser or the question of simply whether they're different sonically than the stock cable? I see two questions getting bantered around here. One presupposing that there's a *better* cable design than the stock sennheiser cable and the other simply wondering whether there's any sonic *differences* between the stock and aftermarket cables. So...which one are we focusing on here? Ceci

Valid concern.

I meant to point out earlier that I think I'm different than some in my opinions. I dont' mean to speak for anybody, but I think JF is working under the assumption that cables will sound identically assuming they're trying to deliver the signal unaltered. I'm assuming Cardas may be trying to alter the signal to sound different.

 

[rodbac]

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Try to read your own posts from a certain distance, and you'll see that your idea has arisen from a biased point of view.

I've never claimed anything else- the question you should be asking yourself is in what my bias is based.

 

[greenhorn]

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Originally Posted by JohnFerrier [Zu-style cables] *do not* make a difference. It's impossible. JF

Ah... now I understand.

It's impossible for aftermarket cables to make a difference => they don't make any.

 

[rodbac]

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Maybe I can ask my physics professor whether he can snatch some of those superconducting wires (plus the magnets and fridge) used for the new accelerator at CERN.

I'm sorry that I'm getting aggravated, but you're just not getting it. It doesn't have to be a superconducting wire, for the love of mike. A 20kHz signal requires almost NOTHING to get it across 10 feet of wire completely unaltered, un-mucked-with, unchanged.

Again, I can't say it any more plainly. If you still want to think I'm claiming the Senn stock cable is performing a supernatural feat getting your music to your headphones, so be it.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cecirdr So...which one are we focusing on here?

Why not both? As to «better»: it means better synergy with the headphone to the ears of the listener in the first instance. The overwhelming majority of HD 580/600/650 owners consider aftermarket cables superior in terms of synergy. I believe they -- or most of them -- also take more care to the signal.

 

[cecirdr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac I meant to point out earlier that I think I'm different than some in my opinions. I dont' mean to speak for anybody, but I think JF is working under the assumption that cables will sound identically assuming they're trying to deliver the signal unaltered. I'm assuming Cardas may be trying to alter the signal to sound different.

Hmmm, now I see. You might be right. I'm not electronics enough minded to have a clue as to that. I'm willing to consider than an aftermarket cable is a fixed equalizer so to speak. ....that they're changing the signal to create a sonic characteristic that people might prefer. I don't (in that regard) see the sennheiser stock cable as deficient. They probably choose it precisely because it *doesn't* muck with the signal.

Is there any way that the frequency response curve at the headphone could be measured with different cables......like you'd see an EQ boost a certain frequency?

Ceci

 

[cecirdr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ Why not both? As to «better»: it means better synergy with the headphone to the ears of the listener in the first instance. The overwhelming majority of HD 580/600/650 owners consider aftermarket cables superior in terms of synergy. I believe they -- or most of them -- also take more care to the signal.

No reason not to pursue both...I was just getting confused. My limitation I guess.

I hear many hd650 people describing a mid bass hump to the sound the headphones make. Perchance that's the native unaltered response of the cans to unaltered signal through a cable? If so...perchance the aftermarket cables "fix" this characteristic via design elements that may (or may not be) higher caliber to an EQ? (I can't speak to high caliber...I'm too new here)

Ceci

 

[JaZZ]

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Originally Posted by rodbac I've never claimed anything else - the question you should be asking yourself is in what my bias is based.

No, thanks!

I'm not religious myself and don't want to mess around with someone else's religion.


Quote:

Originally Posted by cecirdr Is there any way that the frequency response curve at the headphone could be measured with different cables......like you'd see an EQ boost a certain frequency?

Pure cable designs within the frame of the Sennheiser aftermarket cables can't measurably alter the frequency response. You'd need electrical components to do that.

 

[rodbac]

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As to «better»: it means better synergy with the headphone to the ears of the listener in the first instance.

Which I'm perfectly willing to buy.

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The overwhelming majority of HD 580/600/650 owners consider aftermarket cables superior in terms of synergy.

I could propose a number of explanations, but, again, I'm perfectly OK with "I just like it better." (assuming there's a difference designed into the cable).

Quote:

I believe they -- or most of them -- also take more care to the signal.

And once again, if you're saying what I think you're saying here (implying the Senn cable struggles with the signal), you don't have any idea how hard it would be for the Senn cable to fck it up.

 

[rodbac]

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I'm not religious myself and don't want to mess around with someone else's religion.

Who's relying on something more in the realm of religion here!!

I'd also like to say again that I agree with JF that if two cables aren't specifically designed with a metric assload of capacitance (or something else bizarre), they will indeed sound identical.

 

[cecirdr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ Pure cable designs within the frame of the Sennheiser aftermarket cables can't measurably alter the frequency response. You'd need electrical components to do that.

Oh...thanks for the education. So...if someone experiences highs being a bit more forward that doesn't reduce to there being any difference in measurable "stuff" such as a frequency response curve?

Ceci

 

[JaZZ]

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Originally Posted by rodbac And once again, if you're saying what I think you're saying here (implying the Senn cable struggles with the signal), you don't have any idea how hard it would be for the Senn cable to fck it up.

Actually it's the other way round: the Senn cable does more harm to the original signal. At least that's how it sounds (to my ears -- among others). What do you think is built into those aftermarket cables that can alter the signal in a euphonic or compensating way? And in what physical/electrical design properties is the Sennheiser stock cable more accurate in your opinion?

 

[markl]

Quote:

And once again, if you're saying what I think you're saying here (implying the Senn cable struggles with the signal), you don't have any idea how hard it would be for the Senn cable to fck it up.

Yet it's easy for aftermarket cables to muck it up?

So which is it?

A) A cable is a cable, doesn't matter how fancy the construction or design, the differences are all in people's heads, they will all measure the same and perform the same. A wire is so simple there's no way to make one "better" than another.

*Or* is it:

B) It's possible for cables to be designed to "muck" with the signal in a clearly audible manner (which leaves it open to interpretation that one *is* "better" than the other). It *is* possible for a cable to *degrade* the sound in some artificial way through careful design.

You need to figure out which point you are arguing. You started out arguing A, but lately you're hedging with B. I submit that if you argue B, logically, you have to be open to the possibility that it's the *stock cable* not the aftermarket cable that is mucking with the sound.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac I'd also like to say again that I agree with JF that if two cables aren't specifically designed with a metric assload of capacitance (or something else bizarre), they will indeed sound identical.

More precisely: they will show identical frequency responses with sine waves. But as other electronic components (digital players, amps) show, flat fequency responses don't mean identical sound.