Do you ever stop to think that this hobby is a joke?
Nov 26, 2006 at 4:42 PM Post #106 of 185
Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS
"Quite often, audiophiles are as passionate about the equipment they use as the music they listen to."


I would have said that quite often audiophiles are passionate about the equipment more than the music they listen to! That's why they often listen to those awful, soulless audiophile records
wink.gif
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 4:57 PM Post #107 of 185
This is because everybody feels the need to have the same old questions answered personally for them, to see if we think the answer may be diferent for their exact situation (even though 95% of us won't have a clue)

I'll admit that even I'm guilty of this.

But, in agreement, I think that by the point of 100 to 200 posts, one can learn all they need from this forum. I simply visit occasionally for QnA or to check out what's new on the market and what the consensus is on it.
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 5:24 PM Post #108 of 185
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The discrepancy that must be made is that you actually call this a "hobby". I believe that is too broad a term - some dictionaries may define the word as any activity for self-enjoyment or benefit, but when I think "hobby", I think model building, or writing. I don't think about spending exorbitant amounts of money on audio gear and then sitting in the dark by yourself enjoying it. In other words, I usually consider a hobby something that requires some level of skill and dedication.

Don't elevate this whole audiophile craze to the level of "hobby". This is a pastime. This is a nonconstructive thing we take part in. We get nothing out of it but enjoyment and, for those who listen to the right music, an intellectual heightening. However, if you're talking about the people who build cables, do hardware tweaks, or actually make music (I am a member of this sadly small demographic on these boards), that is certainly a hobby.

The only "joke" going around here is that you call this a hobby. No hobby is ever a joke. Hobbies - be it collecting, or crafting, or creating - are always worthwhile in the end; either financially or productively (sometimes both).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby
Hobbies are practised for interest and enjoyment, rather than financial reward. Examples include collecting, making, tinkering, sports and adult education. Engaging in a hobby can lead to acquiring substantial skill, knowledge, and experience. However, personal fulfillment is the aim.

What are hobbies for some people are professions for others: a game tester may enjoy cooking as a hobby, while a professional chef might enjoy playing (and helping to debug) computer games. Generally speaking, the person who does something for fun, not remuneration, is called an amateur (or hobbyist), as distinct from a professional.

An important determinant of what is considered a hobby, as distinct from a profession (beyond the lack of remuneration), is probably how easy it is to make a living at the activity.

Pursuit of a hobby may have calming or helpful therapeutic side effects. In some cases, however, (for example in collecting) the line between a hobby and an obsession can become blurred. There is more than one documented case of violence over things as simple as coin collecting[citation*needed].q:O)>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collecting
The hobby of collecting consists of acquiring specific items based on a particular interest of the collector. These collections of things are often highly organized, carefully cataloged, and attractively displayed. Since collecting depends on the interests of the individual collector, it may deal with almost any subject. The depth and breadth of the collection may also vary. Some collectors choose to focus on a specific subtopic within their area of general interest.

The most popular fields in collecting have specialized commercial dealers that trade in the items being collected, as well as related accessories. Many of these dealers started as collectors themselves, then turned their hobby into a profession. There are some limitations on collecting, however. Someone who has the financial means to collect stamps might not be able to collect sports-cars, for example.

Items and subjects that are popular in collecting include the following:

Technology
? Phonographs
? Vintage Records
? Records
? Radios
? Televisions


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiophile
Audiophile beliefs

Audiophile values may be applied at all stages of the chain—the initial audio recording, the production process, and the playback, which is usually in a home setting. High-end is commonly applied to audiophile vendors, products, and practices. There is much skepticism inside and outside the audiophile community as to whether these practices and products have the claimed effects on the listening experience, and there are often accusations of self-delusion. The skeptics are referred to as objectivists. Those who generally subscribe to audiophile values are referred to as subjectivists. People on both sides of the debate concede that because many audiophiles are laymen, they are vulnerable to exploitation by fanciful claims made by unethical vendors. Audiophool is commonly used to describe subjectivist extremists.

One statement that has influenced many audiophile values [citation needed] is from Harry Pearson, longtime editor of The Absolute Sound:
"We believe that the sound of music, unamplified, occurring in a real space is a philosophic absolute against which we may judge the performance of devices designed to reproduce music."

Audiophiles widely share the belief that even the world's best music-reproduction equipment currently falls far short of this ideal.

Even given agreement on the goal, opinions vary widely among designers and listeners on how best to achieve it. If there is one shared design principle, it is minimalism. Given that capturing, storing, and playing back music inevitably degrades it, the fewer and simpler the stages, the better.

Headphones
Another, less expensive, practice of some audiophiles is the use of premium headphones. While sometimes outlandish in price (as high as $10,000), most headphones marketed to audiophiles are a tiny fraction of the cost of comparable speaker systems, and do not usually require any room adjustment beyond a quiet environment for music enjoyment. Well-known high-end headphones are considered to offer audiophile quality for prices well under a thousand dollars. For example the well regarded Grado SR-60 headphones can be had for under $70 new. Some feel that the performance of high-end headphones is improved by the use of dedicated headphone amplifiers and cables. Newer canalphones, while as expensive as their larger counterparts and considered more limited in soundstage and other characteristics, can be driven by less powerful outputs like portable devices, and have a growing use among audiophiles.
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 7:27 PM Post #109 of 185
No matter how frivolous hobbies may seem (scrapbooking, wine tasting, doll collecting, star gazing, phones anyone?) they all do one very important thing, they create jobs. In the 19th century 90%+ of the people worked on farms, today it's like 2%. That's 2% of 300M. In the eighties the wise guys in Washington decided to put a 10% luxury tax on boats and personal planes because these are rich man's toys. Because of this the boat building and personal plane industries collapsed and most of those good jobs disappeared. The next time you think a hobby is frivolous, remember it's all those good jobs "frivolous" hobbies create that really matters.
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 7:47 PM Post #110 of 185
Quote:

Originally Posted by wae5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
No matter how frivolous hobbies may seem (scrapbooking, wine tasting, doll collecting, star gazing, phones anyone?) they all do one very important thing, they create jobs. In the 19th century 90%+ of the people worked on farms, today it's like 2%. That's 2% of 300M. In the eighties the wise guys in Washington decided to put a 10% luxury tax on boats and personal planes because these are rich man's toys. Because of this the boat building and personal plane industries collapsed and all those good jobs disappeared. The next time you think a hobby is frivolous, remember it's all those good jobs that so-called frivolous hobbies create that really matters.


I never said it was a BAD thing that all of this stuff was "frivolous" and superficial. All I said was that it was a mere classification. I think a lot of wise-guys are calling all of this a "hobby" because they're fat/lazy rich guys that don't have any other real skills, so, instead of undertaking a real hobby which requires skill and dedication, they undertake a community of people who spend outrageous amounts of money on electronics, and then listen to their music through it.

I don't just listen to music - I produce it, perform it, compose it, et cetera. These are hobbies within music. Merely listening to it on expensive gear is NOT a hobby, but a pastime. I don't care how you want to describe an "audiophile" using basic greek or latin roots - the fact of the matter remains: Audiophiles are those who spend lots of money on audio products to enhance the perceived reproduction quality of their music. This act is just as unproductive (some may actually say less so) than watching pornography. And I know you smart guys would never call that a hobby.
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 9:08 PM Post #111 of 185
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
NOT a hobby, but a pastime.


Noun1.pastime - a diversion that occupies one's time and thoughts (usually pleasantly); "sailing is her favorite pastime"; "his main pastime is gambling"; "he counts reading among his interests"; "they criticized the boy for his limited pursuits"

pursuit, interest

diversion, recreation - an activity that diverts or amuses or stimulates; "scuba diving is provided as a diversion for tourists"; "for recreation he wrote poetry and solved crossword puzzles"; "drug abuse is often regarded as a form of recreation"

avocation, hobby, spare-time activity, by-line, sideline - an auxiliary activity

Noun1.hobby - an auxiliary activity

avocation, spare-time activity, by-line, sideline

pastime, pursuit, interest - a diversion that occupies one's time and thoughts (usually pleasantly); "sailing is her favorite pastime"; "his main pastime is gambling"; "he counts reading among his interests"; "they criticized the boy for his limited pursuits"

spelaeology, speleology - the pastime of exploring caves
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 9:17 PM Post #112 of 185
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I never said it was a BAD thing that all of this stuff was "frivolous" and superficial. All I said was that it was a mere classification. I think a lot of wise-guys are calling all of this a "hobby" because they're fat/lazy rich guys that don't have any other real skills, so, instead of undertaking a real hobby which requires skill and dedication, they undertake a community of people who spend outrageous amounts of money on electronics, and then listen to their music through it.

I don't just listen to music - I produce it, perform it, compose it, et cetera. These are hobbies within music. Merely listening to it on expensive gear is NOT a hobby, but a pastime. I don't care how you want to describe an "audiophile" using basic greek or latin roots - the fact of the matter remains: Audiophiles are those who spend lots of money on audio products to enhance the perceived reproduction quality of their music. This act is just as unproductive (some may actually say less so) than watching pornography. And I know you smart guys would never call that a hobby.



Pornography is a hobby and an addiction for many.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your trying to prove other than playing semantic games.

Listening to music is most certainly a hobby. If I don't write books, I can't site reading as a passion and hobby? That's silly.

For many, and those that are by definition fit the audiophile description, music and its accurate reproduction are indeed passions/hobbies.

Btw, I wholeheartily agree that this hobby/passion is silly. That's what makes it so fun!
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 10:05 PM Post #114 of 185
It's silly I tell you; Seriously it's a joke ;-}

Listening to art with more expensive gear than one must to hear music... A waste of time and money, I tell you seriously ;-}

Get a proper hobby like chello or violin or ....And stop posting these ideas wasting others time and money clean your rooms or something gosh dang it!

and quite with these long equepment signatures and such as it bothers some members who have to scroll thru all this bull, gosh dang it all...

Seriously....O'RLY ;-}
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 10:12 PM Post #115 of 185
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I don't just listen to music - I produce it, perform it, compose it, et cetera. These are hobbies within music. Merely listening to it on expensive gear is NOT a hobby, but a pastime. I don't care how you want to describe an "audiophile" using basic greek or latin roots - the fact of the matter remains: Audiophiles are those who spend lots of money on audio products to enhance the perceived reproduction quality of their music. This act is just as unproductive (some may actually say less so) than watching pornography. And I know you smart guys would never call that a hobby.


Producing or playing music is not inherently superior to listening to music. It's not what you do, it's how you do it what truly counts.
wink.gif


And listening to music is not a passtime: if you really think it is, then I'd like to hear what sort of music it is that you play & produce.
confused.gif
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 10:48 PM Post #116 of 185
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Audiophiles are those who spend lots of money on audio products to enhance the perceived reproduction quality of their music.


No they're not. That's like saying an athlete can't be called an athlete unless he's been on a cereal box or had his own line of Nike's produced.

There are dirt poor kids out there who are more audiophile than anyone here. America's way is to define things by how much money we spend on it, but no matter how hard we try to redefine such things to fit our needs that doesn't make it any more true.

I judge no one for how they spend their money. Everyone works hard for their crap, but I will take issue with anyone who claims that the only way to "be" something is to spend a certain dollar amount on it, That's just self serving poo to make themselves feel better about blowing a lot of money on something that they probably feel slightly guilty over.

You don't need a 4,000.00 dollar guitar to be a rock star. You don't need a Steinway to be a concert pianist; And you don't need $10,000.00 worth of gear to be an audiophile.

I happen to also be a cigar aficionado, and I can tell you that it is not necessary to have smoked Cuban cigars to enjoy a fantastic cigar and be knowledgeable about cigars. There's no need for a two thousand dollar lighter when you can light it with a bit of shaved cedar. And just for the record, I've had my share of Cubans, and in the Cigar community, you would be hung out to dry if you were so elitist as to look down on cigar smokers who weren't willing to take the legal risks or the financial risks involved with purchasing them.


Hell folks, you don't even need 10,000.00 to play the stock market--With a very small investment, you're doing it, and you're a part of it. It doesn't require millions of dollars to be a player.

It really IS kind of funny when you think about it. Those people who have 20,30,40,50 thousand dollars invested into their audio equipment... Some of their favorite music was probably produced on equipment that cost a lot less, even if it was only for the band's first album that was produced.
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 11:03 PM Post #117 of 185
Quote:

Originally Posted by ecclesand /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I frequent this forum to learn about headphones. I didn't think I'd be getting a lesson in Philosophy, too.


Why read past the first post then - which was a philosophical query as to what is the point of discussions of all different aspects of a hobby vis-a-vis engaging in the hobby itself?


The point is pleasure - which is the pont of any human action or personality processing prior to action.

Freud described our interests - ranging from avocational and hobby pursuits to strongly addictive compulsions - as libidinal catheixis where libido becomes attached to an object of pleasure. We can thusly fixate on may different things like money, sex, gambling, relationships, hobbies, addictive substances, etc.

Learning theory says such avocational pursuits become conditioned - increasingly so the more the pursuit provided pleasure from reward (or escape from aversive conditions, which is also a source of pleasure).

We get pleasure from listening to music. Our equipment becomes a conditioned or secondary reinforcer, and this is a source of pleasure that spills over (conditions) from the pleasure of music listening. And then, engaging in discussions about music or equipment becomes a source of pleasure in even a higher order of conditioning.

Everything we do is an attempt to obtain pleasure and avoid pain - we are hedonistic to the core.

That doesn't mean we don't sacrifice and endure hardships, sometimes to even die to benefit others. But this too is selfish - love of others can be a source of great pleasure and to die for others can be so also.

Love is never selfless. Morality, which stems from love is never selfless. Love and morality always have a selfish basis. Sister Theresa got her jollies from helping others, as many people do. The desire to love and help, as well as the desire to destroy and hurt, has a genetic basis - where some are more inclined one way and some the other.

So, the answer to the first post, of why we engage in somewhat meaningless and endless disccusssions, is pleasure - it floats our boat.
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 11:04 PM Post #118 of 185
I noticed in the last couple of months when moving to Berlin that I'm just as happy with my Ibuds plugged into my laptop as I am with my CD3k. The main reason being that I really started listening to the music. I caught the infamous upgradeitis when I was more active in these forums, now I know that not visiting this place as much doesn't make me want to have the best of the best.

The CD3k is my final headphone setup. The Ibuds out of my laptop are decent enough for me to enjoy my music.
There are quite a few people here that suggest to buy more music than to spend all of your money into upgrading the hardware, and I never realized how right they are. There's also no need to like a recording just because it's very well recorded (which I did sometimes) or to dislike a recording because it's very badly recorded.
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 11:08 PM Post #119 of 185
Ya, I think it's all a joke too. All of the headphones, amps, sources, and cables I've ever tried all sound the same to me.
tongue.gif
 
Nov 26, 2006 at 11:08 PM Post #120 of 185
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I noticed in the last couple of months when moving to Berlin that I'm just as happy with my Ibuds plugged into my laptop as I am with my CD3k. The main reason being that I really started listening to the music. I caught the infamous upgradeitis when I was more active in these forums, now I know that not visiting this place as much doesn't make me want to have the best of the best.

The CD3k is my final headphone setup. The Ibuds out of my laptop are decent enough for me to enjoy my music.
There are quite a few people here that suggest to buy more music than to spend all of your money into upgrading the hardware, and I never realized how right they are. There's also no need to like a recording just because it's very well recorded (which I did sometimes) or to dislike a recording because it's very badly recorded.



Amen.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top