[traficante]

Of coarse its music. It may not be Mozart but it sure is more musical then say heavy metal...which I also consider to be music.

Now a days the lines between different genre are becomming more blurred. Alternative rock is sounding more like hip hop and hip hop is sounding more like pop rock. Heck, I used to think Queen was a rap group. Half of there songs sound like rap. I think somewhere in this world DMX is having lunch with Serj Tankian and there laughing at us bickering about what is music and what isn't.

I think all this is a cultural divide that runs deeper then the music itself.

 

[gratefulshrink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74 I didn't make a decision, just asked a question and made some suggestions. Reminder - I do own a couple rap CD's and I am not of the opinion that all of it is crap. For the most part I don't care for it due to the lack of melodies and harmonies which leaves my ears with a feeling of too much repetition. Even though I dislike much of what is discussed in rap I can still appreciate and enjoy milestones like the Beastie Boys. I think rap is very different from all other main stream genre's but I think the same thing about classical , which I love (even though it may not be "main stream"). I am not on the attack here folks, just getting opinions and arguments based on the various definitions of "music" and peoples perception of what "music" is.

wakeride, perhpas I should have said if "one" deicdes, and not if "you" decide.

But, my question still stands, what is rap if not "music"? Is there another word in our language to define it more accurately? Dictionary definitions can be stretched and "spun", and maybe not useful for this discussion.

 

[viator122]

So...back on topic...those of you who say it's not music - why? And don't just say, "It sucks," "I don't think rappers are talented," "It's too violent," or "It's not pleasing to my ears." Those are all reasons for you to not like rap, but they don't speak to whether it's music or not.

For my part, I believe rap is music because a)it has rhythm and melody (even if not a lot) and b)society has decided it's music.

 

[viator122]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masonjar Either "rhythm" is music or it isn't.

Of course it is - there are whole cultures in Africa that only use drums to make music. Is anyone going to say that they don't have music?

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 b)society has decided it's music.

Society also believes that paris hilton is attractive and a good influence for young girls.

Sorry. I agree though. Even though some of us may not like rap music or any other genre, it's still music. (by definition) For the most part. Discussion ended. Let's all go get some cholocolate pretzels.

 

[PSmith08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 So...back on topic...those of you who say it's not music - why? And don't just say, "It sucks," "I don't think rappers are talented," "It's too violent," or "It's not pleasing to my ears." Those are all reasons for you to not like rap, but they don't speak to whether it's music or not. For my part, I believe rap is music because a)it has rhythm and melody (even if not a lot) and b)society has decided it's music.

Let's change the question from "Is rap music?" to "Is rap good music?"

I think it is clearly a valid form of music, but it's merits and overall value could be debated.

 

[wakeride74]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gratefulshrink wakeride, perhpas I should have said if "one" deicdes, and not if "you" decide. But, my question still stands, what is rap if not "music"? Is there another word in our language to define it more accurately? Dictionary definitions can be stretched and "spun", and maybe not useful for this discussion.

Well, that is the question my friend.
We could just say that since it is sold in every "music" store it is music.

viator122 also had a very good argument earlier.

I think what it boils down to is the individual perception of "music". While one could say rap is not music it is a rhythmic expression or rhythmic street art, someone else could say hard stuff like Mudvayne, Otep, Slipknot is not "music" it's just noise.
It all depends on what the listener hears and that is going to be unique to each person for the most part IMO

 

[Hell_Gopher]

2. Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.

By this definition, it's music. Do I think it's music? Yes, absolutely. And some of it is good music.

 

[wakeride74]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSmith08 Let's change the question from "Is rap music?" to "Is rap good music?" I think it is clearly a valid form of music, but it's merits and overall value could be debated.

Very true...hindsight is 20/20

 

[Factor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSmith08 "Is rap good music?"

This question sort of reminds me of this CD I saw in a store once. It was a single-disc compilation called "The Best Of Jazz."

Many of the statements a lot of you are making in this thread are tantamount to some grandparent in 1975 saying to his grandkid, "I hear a lot about this new 'rock and roll' music on the TV. Is that stuff any good?"

Hip-hop music has a history that spans 4 decades, it's one of the most popular forms of entertainment across the globe, it can be divided endlessly into subgenres, movements and time periods, it has hit lows that are purely awful, and it has hit highs that stand alongside the best, most transcendentally wonderful music of the modern era. By making a statement about the quality of hip-hop (or "rap") as if it's one single unit, all you're communicating is that you haven't the slightest frame of reference. It's no better than a teenager saying "jazz is boring."

With all due respect of course.

 

[Rempert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman While the rapper is not singing, they still are technically using their voice as an instrument - for a percussive instrument more so instead of actual "voice". The instrumentation comes from the ability to use the voice as a forward-attacking sound (that happens to be composed of words instead of just "sounds"). Jon Anderson uses his voice as an instrument of majesty and beauty. 50 Cent uses it as almost a "drum". It's one tone, moving to a beat.

No!!!! You are half right. You are right about using the voice as an attacking, rhythmic instrument. However, you are wrong about the tone, and this seems to be a popular misconception. Rappers are rarely monotone. And 50 Cent, who you mentioned specifically, is particularly known for his melodic rapping.

Quote:

Many/most rap artists do not follow verse structures nor do they have voices that could be considered "singing voices".

True, but misleading. Indeed, a rap verse does not always follow verse structure in the "each verse has the same melody and chord progression" sense. It is more like a jam band where you have a soloist improvising a melody while the band just riffs through a progression. However, even though the rapper has a great deal of freedom to choose the notes to his melody, the notes are still there. The main difference between "rapping" and "singing" is the length of time a typical note is held.

Quote:

Some people may take the idea that rap music is simply poetry put to a beat.

It can be. The Last Poets did that. Vincent Price did that on "Thriller". Anyone who recites poetry in time over music is technically rapping. However, when we talk about hip-hop or typical rap music, it is much more than just reciting lyrics in time over music. There are vocal melodies and often vocal harmonies, and they have to fit the tonal nature of the background music in order to be effective.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74 Yes, I especially like the quality lyrics... that's good clean fun for the whole family! BTW - thanks for taking this downhill

Quality lyrics? Country's idea of quality lyrics! Flame On! =p

 

[PSmith08]

I do not care for rap or hip-hop or whatever. However, as I said, I refuse to discount the entire genre and define it as not-music simply because I prefer Wagner to the Wu-Tang Clan. I do not impugn the tastes of those who prefer "Straight Outta Compton" to "Carmen."

Quote:

Originally Posted by factor This question sort of reminds me of this CD I saw in a store once. It was a single-disc compilation called "The Best Of Jazz." Many of the statements a lot of you are making in this thread are tantamount to some grandparent in 1975 saying to his grandkid, "I hear a lot about this new 'rock and roll' music on the TV. Is that stuff any good?" Hip-hop music has a history that spans 4 decades, it's one of the most popular forms of entertainment across the globe, it can be divided endlessly into subgenres, movements and time periods, it has hit lows that are purely awful, and it has hit highs that stand alongside the best, most transcendentally wonderful music of the modern era. By making a statement about the quality of hip-hop (or "rap") as if it's one single unit, all you're communicating is that you haven't the slightest frame of reference. It's no better than a teenager saying "jazz is boring." With all due respect of course.

This music has a vibrant and interesting history. However, for those who do not care for it (and even for those who do), a discussion of the merits and overall value is still possible. People debate the value of classical and opera, and those forms can be endlessly classified and genre-fied (sometimes one composer can get that treatment). A value judgment can be made on rap, but whether or not everyone will accept it is another matter entirely.

 

[Jasper994]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74 2. Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.

That is an OR, not an AND, hence, rap is music by that definition.

and if you're looking for melody and harmony, check out some stuff by groups like Bone Thugs - N - Harmony

 

[jefemeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman ... Since when was the *F* word cool? Since when was it entertaining to hear about Zearle's plans for destruction, or 50-Cent's obsessive-compulsive sex stories?...

You must have the worst taste in movies

edit: I guess I should elaborate a bit. I of course think that Rap is music. Sometimes it can be damn good, sometimes it sucks, and sometimes it's just plain ol' good entertainment.