[philodox]

 

[Masonjar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74 My intention here is not to get nasty or offend anyone. I just think that it falls short of the definition of music as defined by the dictionary and is maybe closer to a "rhythmic form of expression" or something. BTW I love all music and even have a couple rap CD's. I'm also a big country fan and am always getting worked for liking that twangy thang

Tell ya what, go to a hardcore or metal show and try telling the drummer he's not a musician and see what happens.

-jar

 

[gratefulshrink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor This is the worst thread ever.

Perhaps, but it is an interesting sociological experiment.

Discussions about musical taste elitism say alot about us, and about elitism. A recent thread looked at this from the other side, questioning why classical music is usually considered the "best" or most sophisticated from of music: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126755

 

[wakeride74]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gratefulshrink Since semantics are important in this type of discussion, if you decide that rap is not "music", then what is it?

I didn't make a decision, just asked a question and made some suggestions.

Reminder - I do own a couple rap CD's and I am not of the opinion that all of it is crap. For the most part I don't care for it due to the lack of melodies and harmonies which leaves my ears with a feeling of too much repetition.

Even though I dislike much of what is discussed in rap I can still appreciate and enjoy milestones like the Beastie Boys.

I think rap is very different from all other main stream genre's but I think the same thing about classical , which I love (even though it may not be "main stream").

I am not on the attack here folks, just getting opinions and arguments based on the various definitions of "music" and peoples perception of what "music" is.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Yet, I'll say it again, so many of you seem to have a hard-on for putting down rap.

How did I miss this. I've met a lot of rap fanswho put down nearly ever other genre, even without listening to it. (I'ves taken a lot of crap myself) I personally think rap (and maybe classical) aficionados can be real snobs sometimes. You guys think it's the f**kin' s**t. It can be, but not always. At least other genres accept that.

Quote:

A recent thread looked at this from the other side, questioning why classical music is usually considered the "best" or most sophisticated from of music: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126755

The guy who started that thread does that all the time. He likes to spout his non-elitism in a way that comes off as elitist. (purposely I think) Yes, I don't like him, but I have good reason.

 

[strohmie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia How did I miss this. I've met a lot of rap fanswho put down nearly ever other genre, even without listening to it. (I'ves taken a lot of crap myself) I personally think rap (and maybe classical) aficionados can be real snobs sometimes. You guys think it's the f**kin' s**t. It can be, but not always. At least other genres accept that.

I've met plenty of fans of other genres who find everything else to be utter crap -- musicians who won't listen to anything if it's not atonal, emo fans who thing that anything not related to Conor Oberst is sewage, pop fans who believe anything out of the mainstream is too complex for their tastes, indie fans who can't stand any act they believe has sold out, etc etc. This isn't just classical or rap -- every single genre in existence has its zealots, and you should know that.

 

[Aman]

Masonjar: I never said drums were insignificant. I am in fact a drummer and feel they are just as important as the next instrument. What I was saying was that they were using their voices percusively, and it's uneffective! It's like playing percussion on an electric guitar, or strumming piano keys. It's nearly impossible, and won't sound good at all!

That's what rappers' voices are.

And no, I don't feel that I am less of a music lover because I don't like rap music. I listen to a wide variety of music and genres -- but I simply WILL NOT take the subject matter nor the "tallent" that rap artists contain. Since when was the *F* word cool? Since when was it entertaining to hear about Zearle's plans for destruction, or 50-Cent's obsessive-compulsive sex stories? No, I will not hear it! I have over 3000 LPs, and only one of them is a rap album, and I didn't even buy it on my own free will. The reason it isn't in the garbage can is because it is signed by the rapper himself, "Redman".

Is it a crime to simply not like a fully-commercial music genre? I personally feel I would have sank lower if I were to start all of the sudden liking the rap music I hear.

I do not feel like I am missing out on anything.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by strohmie I've met plenty of fans of other genres who find everything else to be utter crap -- musicians who won't listen to anything if it's not atonal, emo fans who thing that anything not related to Conor Oberst is sewage, pop fans who believe anything out of the mainstream is too complex for their tastes, indie fans who can't stand any act they believe has sold out, etc etc. This isn't just classical or rap -- every single genre in existence has its zealots, and you should know that.

I don't cause most non-raps I fan know rarely do that. Some of my friends listen to hardcore rock, but they listen to bits of other genres, and don't dismiss without listening to it. My city predominately listens to rap and pop. And they can be real a**holes, including my own boys. That's what my experience shows, and that's what I say.

 

[Masonjar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia How did I miss this. I've met a lot of rap fanswho put down nearly ever other genre, even without listening to it. (I'ves taken a lot of crap myself) I personally think rap (and maybe classical) aficionados can be real snobs sometimes. You guys think it's the f**kin' s**t. It can be, but not always. At least other genres accept that.

I'm a music fan. I'm just reporting what I see here on this board. I'm sure there are rap snobs who hate white boy rock music. Most classical fans I know are open minded to other types of music. I think as you get older your mind opens up. When I was young, if it wasn't metal it was crap. But that's how I thought as a 13 year old kid. I wouldn't give the time of day to the Police or Duran Duran fans.

Musical snobbery has nothing to do with what kind of music you like. It has everything to do with the mentality of the listener. You find music snobs everywhere you go. I could point you to a board with some serious prog rock snobs.

-jar

 

[strohmie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia I don't cause most non-raps I fan know rarely do that. Some of my friends listen to hardcore rock, but they listen to bits of other genres, and don't dismiss without listening to it. My city predominately listens to rap and pop. And they can be real a**holes, including my own boys. That's what my experience shows, and that's what I say.

Then hopefully one day you'll be more experienced and see how common this is in every genre.

 

[Kirosia]

Ah, I wish as that was true for everyone (the age thing). Sadly, around here most of the older guys are gangsters, skinheads, or just plain nasty. They can be real harsh when judging others music, even killing over it.

 

[wakeride74]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masonjar Tell ya what, go to a hardcore or metal show and try telling the drummer he's not a musician and see what happens. -jar

Oh please... don't try to compare drummers like Danny Carey - Tool, Spüg - Mudvayne, or Joey Jordison - Slipknot (i.e. "hardcore or metal") to members of rap groups. Total apples and oranges... those guys could change tempos so many time you couldn't find the down beat. Danny Carey is arguably one of the best drummers in the world not to mention most drummers like that could put their stuff on sheet music.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by strohmie Then hopefully one day you'll be more experienced and see how common this is in every genre.

When the day comes that a jazz or poprock fan threatens me cause of my tastes, and calls me a fa**ot, p**sy, or use racial slurs (rap fans like to use them a lot for some reason), or calss every other genre g*y, untalented, and s**t them on their CDs. Maybe I'll learn. Please, don't give your line on how I lack experience in these matters. (I don't, I assure you) Maybe you should realize things aren't always equal, and that some people/music/fans can be worse than others.

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman Is it a crime to simply not like a fully-commercial music genre?

Of course not, but your 'not liking' statement (personal preference) is littered with comments about its quality (something else), which is worth arguing about (though has nothing to do with the original question). I've already listed my feelings on some rock fans lack of perspective with comments on the inferiority of rap in the other referenced thread, so won't here. But gotta say if anyone posts a comment on a genres worth/quality/etc. shouldn't they expect a response independent of personal preferences? Say 'I don't like it'. Fine. Say 'I don't like it 'cause it sucks'. That's something else.

 

[Masonjar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74 Oh please... don't try to compare drummers like Danny Carey - Tool, Spüg - Mudvayne, or Joey Jordison - Slipknot (i.e. "hardcore or metal") to members of rap groups. Total apples and oranges... those guys could change tempos so many time you couldn't find the down beat. Danny Carey is arguably one of the best drummers in the world not to mention most drummers like that could put their stuff on sheet music.

I think you missed the point..

You were the one who brought up the "dictionary" defintion of music.

Either "rhythm" is music or it isn't. If Fiddy Cent isn't a "musican," then neither is Danny Carey.

-jar