Do you consider rap to be "music"?
Jul 19, 2005 at 5:06 PM Post #16 of 166
good lyrical non-hatefilled drug/alcohol endorsing rap is music. Most the crap they play on mtv is not. Although, rap that tries to make someone understand how living on the streets sucks, not necessarily bad. (even if they swear a lot) As long as they don't glorify it. A lot of "artists" today use beats to cover up thier lack of lyrical skill, which is a problem.

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There are certain musics I don't care for, Andrew Lloyd Webber musicals, Yanni, Kenny G, but, I don't have anything against them. Lighten up people.


I agree that attacking it without cause is immoral in away, but cmon, there is some basis. Most mainstream rap today is purely synthetic, without lyrical substance. And yanni never glorified smoking weed and smacking round some ho's. Course I never heard anything by him, so I may be wrong. I could get into how bad rap is a bad influence (unlike most other music genres sans certain rock), but not here. (I said my point in th eminem thread anyway)

barney the dinosaur cannot rap. 50 cent is an idiot.

(and do I listen to it? back in the day I listened to street/ganster rap, cause well, I could relate to some things. I don't now)
 
Jul 19, 2005 at 5:08 PM Post #17 of 166
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Originally Posted by Kirosia
50 cent is an idiot.


Yeah, but you catch yourself tapping your feet to him. Same thing goes for Eminem... if any of these guys produced stuff that had some sort of soul to it they could take the world by storm.
 
Jul 19, 2005 at 5:14 PM Post #18 of 166
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Originally Posted by philodox
Yeah, but you catch yourself tapping your feet to him. Same thing goes for Eminem... if any of these guys produced stuff that had some sort of soul to it they could take the world by storm.


Not really. I guess some of it is catchy, but isn't most pop music so?
 
Jul 19, 2005 at 5:15 PM Post #19 of 166
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Originally Posted by Kirosia
Not really. I guess some of it is catchy, but isn't most pop music so?


True, I would put most popular music in the same basket as rap. There is good to be found there, but it is hidden deep.

That said, it is definately music.
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Jul 19, 2005 at 5:21 PM Post #20 of 166
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Originally Posted by philodox
True, I would put most popular music in the same basket as rap. There is good to be found there, but it is hidden deep.

That said, it is definately music.
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Heh, I like some (older) pop so I'm not gonna say nothing.
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Jul 19, 2005 at 5:24 PM Post #21 of 166
Some people like instrumental - pure non-verbal communication of emotion - others like voice with instrumental - verbal and non-verbal communication.

Some people like simple, some complicated. A steady drum beat from a single drum is the most simple music available.

Rap is music that is very simple, verbal and non-verbal, emotional communication.

Rap energizes - some people need such brain arousal while others need soothing in New Age music - most need some of both.
 
Jul 19, 2005 at 5:26 PM Post #22 of 166
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia
good lyrical non-hatefilled drug/alcohol endorsing rap is music. Most the crap they play on mtv is not.


What does lyrical content* or popularity have to do with it? Even bad music is still music.

Is anyone seriously arguing a bad painting isn't a painting or a bad photograph isn't a photograph?

Art however may (it's been debated since at least late 50's**) be different.

[size=xx-small]
* Careful you'll wipe out a lot of great lit if you start applying tests on drug, alcohol or hate.

** Does Art have a quality requirement like Beauty or Truth or is it simply Art if recognized as such by a culture and can be great or horrid independently.[/size]
 
Jul 19, 2005 at 5:27 PM Post #24 of 166
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Originally Posted by wakeride74
I figured with all the m&m bashing a few threads down I'd see how many people consider rap to be music.
Now before anyone gets all bent out of shape lets look at the definition. (taken from dictionary.com)

mu·sic n. -

1. The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre.
2. Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.

The only instrument in most rap is a keyboard or synth set and a turntable (if that's an instrument) and maybe on occasion a bass guitar. The lead raps instead of sings and there are often not much in the way of harmony and melody (unless it was pulled from a previously popular 80's song or something). Not even a laymen knowledge of music theory is needed for rap.

I don't care to argue its impact on society or that it is a "art" form (if you so chose to call it that), I realize it is a form of expression, good to dance to and all that. Does it take talent? Yes, I believe it does and I know I could not do it. I just think it's more rhythmic than musical.

So is it just a rhythm to move to or is it "a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre"? Is rap different from every other genre because it lacks many harmonic and melodic elements that are similar in all others?



Since semantics are important in this type of discussion, if you decide that rap is not "music", then what is it?
 
Jul 19, 2005 at 5:27 PM Post #25 of 166
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Originally Posted by Aman
There is no doubt that rap music requires tallent. However, I believe that not too much rap music today (and yes, even the "underground" stuff) can be considered "tallented" because of the actual song they wrote. Rap artists almost always cheat with words and make their own words to fit the song so that they rhyme. They seem to ramble often and don't follow formidable verse. Rap artists are successful due to their commerical and marketing abilities. To be able to both follow the style and set the path for new styles. Rap music is some of the most commercial music to exist. It has a heavy influence on clothing styles of the highest-priced brands and can effectively change the largest consumer market of the world.



People are "blessed" with musical talent all across racial and economic lines. Some of these kids are born into environments that foster learning of more traditional instruments like the violin or trumpet or piano. Some of these kids hear a Led Zeppelin album and pick up the guitar. Some kinds grow up singing in church. Some kids have no instruments to play, they have their voices. Musical talent can and does manifest it self in a multitude of ways, not just on what you would consider "real" instruments. And if Jon Anderson's "soaring" voice is comparable to an instrument, is the "drum" comparison any less valid? Is the "drum" somehow less of an instrument? There's a wide range of emotions and feelings that can be expressed simply with rhythm, dynamics and syncopation.. Ever hear how the Bomb Squad builds and releases tension? It's one aspect that some rap artists and their producers are really good at.

It's like this, 90% of any genre is copy cat crap. It would be just as easy to crap all over the bad prog bands or the bad country acts or the bad indie rock bands as it is to beat up on the bad rap artists.

Yet, I'll say it again, so many of you seem to have a hard-on for putting down rap. Being a music fan isn't about what team you're on or what scene you're a part of. It's being open to the best of everything. Slam the door on an entire genre and you could be missing out on some truly amazing music.

-jar
 
Jul 19, 2005 at 5:29 PM Post #26 of 166
The division in this thread, for the most part, is simply that if you like rap, it's music, and if you don't like rap, it's not music. If you take the Cage definition, then the birds chirping outside my window counts as music. Which in a sense is part of the concept behind ambient music, which from what I have in my own collection consists of mood-setting washes of sound but not what one might generally consider to be melodic, rhythmic, or harmonic. But do I listen to it as music? No question.

I'd say anything can be described as music if it can be heard as pleasing to at least one person's ears. The screechy noise of a Merzbow album isn't going to be to the tastes of 99.9% of the population, but if that .1% finds pleasure in its sound, it's music. Much of rap consists of chopped sound samples from ages past behind some guy talking in an unmelodic fashion about some dour aspect of his life. Do I like all of it? No, there's a lot of trash there, as with any genre. But just because there's a lack of melody, rhythm, or harmony through much of the music doesn't mean that it isn't music. Such ancient definitions of what music is constitutes the reason behind why Stravinsky was decried a musical heretic almost 100 years ago. Is his particular sound seen as music today? Certainly.
 
Jul 19, 2005 at 5:32 PM Post #27 of 166
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Originally Posted by blessingx
What does lyrical content* or popularity or presentation have to do with it? Even bad music is still music.


Fine, like you said, it's bad music.

Also, I don't care if an artist/writer/whatever smokes crack or drinks or (maybe even hates), just don't tell me too. Or make it seem like it's cool.
 
Jul 19, 2005 at 5:37 PM Post #29 of 166
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Originally Posted by strohmie
The division in this thread, for the most part, is simply that if you like rap, it's music, and if you don't like rap, it's not music.


I wouldnt really say that... I'm not the hugest rap fan, but I think it is music. Then again, much of the music I do listen to has roots in rap or hip hop culture, so maybe it is just less of a shock to my senses than the Jazz and Classical lovers.
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Jul 19, 2005 at 5:38 PM Post #30 of 166
Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox
I wouldnt really say that... I'm not the hugest rap fan, but I think it is music. Then again, much of the music I do listen to has roots in rap or hip hop culture, so maybe it is just less of a shock to my senses than the Jazz and Classical lovers.
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Hence the "for the most part" in that statement -- I could have said "entirely."
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