[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let's not confuse the Chinese man with the Chinese government, thank you very much.

As long as you don't confuse americans with the US government.

But even so, how would you explain, for example, the toy factory that was supplied with lead-free paint by it's american client, and somehow produced toys with leaded paint anyway?

 

[Jubei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif What these summer olympics have taught me is that a chinese man has no honor and his word means nothing; that he will lie to me without compunction if it suits him.

I have refrained from these Olympics threads and frankly there seems to be no way for this thread to avoid politics. But the above remark is offensive in a broad stroke kind of way.

 

[Nankai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let's not confuse the Chinese man with the Chinese government, thank you very much. And China today is not China 50 years ago. Still too many problems, but it is getting better, step by step. Whether change is coming quickly enough, how we get there and where change is going backwards is probably a question for a different thread.

China goverment did a brilliant job for Chinese citizens during the last three decades.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jubei /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have refrained from these Olympics threads and frankly there seems to be no way for this thread to avoid politics. But the above remark is offensive in a broad stroke kind of way.

I agree that i went too far and have edited my post.

But it is somewhat striking that the massive PR effort the chinese government has made, has only left me with negative impressions.

 

[Nankai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif As long as you don't confuse americans with the US government. But even so, how would you explain, for example, the toy factory that was supplied with lead-free paint by it's american client, and somehow produced toys with leaded paint anyway?

Those toys are US brand. QC controlled by a US company. Agreement signed by a US manager. We Chinese factories also made billions of good earphones without leaded paint for most American companies and head-fiers here. It seemed that US earphone industry is way better than Toy industry.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you might be assuming too much. Perhaps it is better to discuss what we do know instead of what we assume to know?

Alright. Did you know that a chinese gymnast has testified under oath that she was younger than 16 when she competed at a previous summer olympics?

Did you know that the national anthem music they've been playing is actually pirated copies of copyrighted arrangements that were composed for the 2004 olympics?

If you win by cheating, what have you actually won?

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj (...)

Since you're obviously not trying to make constructive dialogue, I won't bother either.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Nankai /img/forum/go_quote.gif China goverment did a brilliant job for Chinese citizens during the last three decades.

Given the conditions that China was in 30 years ago, I agree. The way how Deng used a pragmatic and gradualistic approach and how he put economic advance as his main priority was exactly what China needed. But it hasn't been brilliant for everybody, but then again it never is in times of drastic change (not an excuse, but an explanation).

However, China now isn't China 30 years ago and different times calls for different actions. And right now, China's biggest problem isn't economic stagnation.

I've actually talked to some political higher-ups in China, very smart and caring people, but these are also people for whom change is equivalent to bad. So many problems in China, especially those most heavily criticised by other countries, can be attributed to this fear of change. This fear, or almost paranoia, is understandable if you look at what they have lived through, but that doesn't make it right. However, if they don't even trust their own Harvard-educated children because they have "Western thought", I'm not sure how quickly China is going make the changes necessary before even more police stations and courts get burned down in the countryside. If anything, the Olympics has been (hopefully) a good eye-opener for some politicians here that not everybody in the world loves the way China is being run at the moment.

From the discussions I've had with people, what is needed most right now is more accountability on part of officials. This is hard to achieve without democracy but a free(r) press would be a good start in the right direction. Even in the absence of democracy, China's thousands of years of tradition of political leaders also being moral leaders is something that would help this cause if combined with greater press freedom. Admittedly, the press is getting freer by the day but it's not quick enough. I'm pretty confident that China will eventually get it right, mostly because I believe in the Chinese people and its many deeply embedded virtues. I just hope that the government will remember some of these virtues sooner rather than later. Again, more transparency through greater press freedom would be a big first step.

 

[immtbiker]

I think that it is safe to say that a lot of countries that are sposts competitive, break the rules.

Isn't America going through the painstaking task, including congressional hearings, to smoke out and stifle Steroid use. To me, that is just as bad (if not worse) as lies about age.

Breaking the rules, is breaking the rules. If you speed in a car most of the time and only get caught every couple of years, you are still breaking the rules (law). I know that I do.

With everything taken into consideration, I commend China for pulling off a monsterous and daunting task, and that is, hosting the Olympics.

Well done, China. We don't really know what goes on behind the scenes, but they are pulling off one of the best hosting challenges along side with the best of them. Bravo.

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well done, China. We don't really know what goes on behind the scenes, but they are pulling off one of the best hosting challenges along side with the best of them. Bravo.

Thanks for posting that and I think many athletes would agree with that assessment. Not few, including coaches, have called the Olympic village the best they've ever seen. And the fact that so many world records have been broken (even if you take out the swimming records which are more due to the new Speedo suit but also the deep pool), is another good argument. I've seen 4 events and the degree of organisation was fantastic. I know I had a great time there.

The biggest kudos out to the hundred of thousands of volunteers in Beijing who have worked an entire month from morning till evening for nothing but a free shirt and maybe a dinner with a semi-ranked politician. Many cab drivers, common folks and even housewives took English lessons so they could chat with their foreign customers if they needed help. And no government forced them to do this. When I watched the female gymnast matches where the US won, the commentators were extremely appreciative of the US team's efforts, and praised them for their outstanding achievements and that they deserved it even though China only got silver or bronze - and they meant it. A popular chant was "Go Olympics, go China". Despite cynical interpretations in the West, the people always truly meant both parts. For me things like these, even if mostly ignored by Western media, are the greatest sign of hospitality that a country could show to the world.

 

[Genetic]

Indeed these Olympics were an impressive success on the technical side.

But I'm sure the Brit will be more honest about the age factor...(Jimmy Page is that old....

)

Amicalement

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Alright. Did you know that a chinese gymnast has testified under oath that she was younger than 16 when she competed at a previous summer olympics?

Than let the international governing body (FIG in this case) does something about it. If FIG doesn't take action, than we should blame FIG for not doing their job.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Did you know that the national anthem music they've been playing is actually pirated copies of copyrighted arrangements that were composed for the 2004 olympics?

So, lets the copyright owner sues the offender for money. It isn't like people these days don't get sued for owning pirated copy of something.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you win by cheating, what have you actually won?

Fame, money and power, at least before proved guilty. For those who don't cheat, there is only one more thing they won: honor, but unfortunately the value of honor is very low in many societies these days.

Athletes are human too, and without a doubt some of them will make mistake or choose to cut corner by cheating just to fulfill their humans' desire. However, I think most of us will also agree that 'proved guilty' is better than 'proved innocent', thus we apply it into our judicial system. So till we get some solid evidence, I will still believe that the system works and IOC isn't dysfunctional to a point that they don't even notice 100 medalists were not tested for drug or all the test results are totally false.

 

[gpalmer]

Not sure where all this China bashing is coming from but from where I sit it looks like the Chinese have done a great job improving the country. China is a huge country though, both geographically and populace wise and it will take many years before the mindsets change. Look at the race issues we've been dealing with in the US and how long it's taken to change mindsets. And that's with concerted effort and a much smaller population.

So far as the gymnasts age, the pic of Ziyi Zhang posted earlier looks like she was 16, but trying to look younger. It's a creepy picture, reminds me of **** produced for pedophiles using legal models. I watched the Olympics in 1024p on a 47" HDTV and the Chinese gymnasts sure didn't look to be 16. I wouldn't believe for a minute that they were 16 but I doubt it can be proved they weren't. That's the part that's disturbing. When Americans have been caught in violations its always been a few people that independently decided they wanted to cheat without any official involvement. In this case, faking a birth certificate requires government involvement and that's the part that is disturbing.

 

[Zuerst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree that i went too far and have edited my post. But it is somewhat striking that the massive PR effort the chinese government has made, has only left me with negative impressions.

Based on your blatantly racist and offensive comment and blank accusations, I don't think anything can really give you positive impressions.

Chinese government still have some ways to go no doubt, but to put down a whole race because of it? wow...

 

[ameyer17]

If it can happen in the US *cough*Danny Almonte*cough* it can happen in China.
EDIT: Actually, that was the Dominican Republic, not Puerto Rico.
Still, I'm fairly certain the Chinese government could/would cheat like that.

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genetic /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I'm sure the Brit will be more honest about the age factor...(Jimmy Page is that old.... )

John McCain is really, really....old!