DIY Ground Box Thread
- Thread starter dougms3
- Start date
no. So the same ancillary you are connected to the signal like this, are you also benefiting from a ground box via the mains as well With a grounding box, so you have two connected to the same ancillary.
cdacosta
Headphoneus Supremus
I separate signal and AC earth ground to separate ground boxes. I never mix AC earth ground and signal ground to the same box. I think this is what you are asking. Yes earth ground does benefit from ground box filtering.
No, sorry that is not what I mean. Having an ancillary connected via 2 ground boxes mains and signal ground separately still benefits rather than one ground box ? Say mains only or signal only. Have you tried chassis ground separately rather than signal.
Ghoostknight
500+ Head-Fier
oh, right, we germans just pronounce it like this "chinch"Cinch
Why not just RCA it’s shorter and everyone understands, where does cinch come from .
cdacosta
Headphoneus Supremus
I am trying to understand what you are asking. Component or cable signal ground or AC earth ground should each have their own passive ground box.
I have tried chassis ground for both AC earth ground applications and components such as DAC, amp, PC/source. I do not recommend using a ground box this way. In every case this yields the lowest performance. Possibly yielding no or barely audible performance gains. If one thinks about the two (signal vs chassis) installations logically, the results of the different applications make sense. And is obvious once one tries it.
* Signal ground, such as an RCA is directly filtering the input or output stage of the component.
* Cable (by modding or using a cable by Entreq) signal ground (or shield ground of XLR balanced) is filtering the cable and directly filtering the output stage of the component.
* Chassis installation is filtering earth ground, but through the metal of the chassis. Worse performing of all installation in my experience. Alligator clip on a chassis bolt may yield no or barely audible results.
If someone wants to filter earth ground of a component, the best way to do this is to mod the power cable at the IEC end of the component. This way you are directly filtering the power supply of the component and the power cable. If the component has a ground post "that is directly wired to the IEC" of the component this will work also.
As I have mentioned more times than I can remember now... the cable (wire and connectors), the connection itself, and where the cable is connected on system side is 50% or more the the performance of a ground box.
cdacosta
Headphoneus Supremus
Also to note, signal filtering with a ground box is more effective at a component's input or output stage. Also very effective at a components digital input or output stage. AC earth ground filtering is effective but yields approx. 30% or so of the performance gain vs signal filtering.
If someone is limited in the amount of ground boxes available to them, they will get the most out of them by filtering the signal input or output stages of their components. I would start at the DAC, then DDC, then source or amp. If more ground boxes are available then filter earth ground applications. Also keep this in mind, even though earth ground filtering is not as effective as signal ground filtering, there is a compounded effect or system performance increase. The more of the noise that is removed from the system, whether it be from signal ground or earth ground the system performance does keep getting elevated. As noise is systematically being removed from a system, the performance of the system gets to a point you will not remember what the system sounded like before you started. It can be so stark of a difference I do not think many will believe it until experiencing it.
Assuming a ground box is designed well, when installing a ground box it should be really obvious the effect it offers to an audio system. The response you should have is more in line with "hell ya". If your response is having to think about if there are any changes in what is heard, something is wrong.
If someone is limited in the amount of ground boxes available to them, they will get the most out of them by filtering the signal input or output stages of their components. I would start at the DAC, then DDC, then source or amp. If more ground boxes are available then filter earth ground applications. Also keep this in mind, even though earth ground filtering is not as effective as signal ground filtering, there is a compounded effect or system performance increase. The more of the noise that is removed from the system, whether it be from signal ground or earth ground the system performance does keep getting elevated. As noise is systematically being removed from a system, the performance of the system gets to a point you will not remember what the system sounded like before you started. It can be so stark of a difference I do not think many will believe it until experiencing it.
Assuming a ground box is designed well, when installing a ground box it should be really obvious the effect it offers to an audio system. The response you should have is more in line with "hell ya". If your response is having to think about if there are any changes in what is heard, something is wrong.
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cdacosta
Headphoneus Supremus
Using Rochelle Salt to absorb EMI and tune...
I originally did not plan to mention these tweaks. But I just got a very nice timbre boost with a PLC mod and AC cable mod I did, adding these tweaks made the difference . So I thought I would throw it out there for others to try if they want. Rochelle Salt is well known and used to absorb EMI. I personally have had mixed results trying it where they are usually used outside of part of ground box mix. The following are two uses that work and used kind of similar to Shakti Stones or Onlines. The effects are subtle to a bit more than subtle. But when one finds the placement that improves or gels with the systems synergy the cumulative effects are welcomed. And the cost is very negligible, 2lb bag is about $25.
How I am using it mainly is with AC power or with/on the side of SMPS. On top of a ground box could add a bit of mid to top end spice. Must just try it at different places and listen to see if you like what it does. If ones system is a bit too dark, this will also help open up the system.
* If you look carefully at the pics, you can see small bags on top of the AC connector end of power cords. I like the effect here.
* I also place the Rochelle Salt inside small zip lock bags and place them in the 2.25" wide x 7/8" high x 3 7/8" long ABS enclosures. The feet I use under the small enclosures are small round silicone feet I got on Amazon. I use these like small Shatki Stones and place them on top of the ground boxes and the Furutech PLC in the pic.
I originally did not plan to mention these tweaks. But I just got a very nice timbre boost with a PLC mod and AC cable mod I did, adding these tweaks made the difference . So I thought I would throw it out there for others to try if they want. Rochelle Salt is well known and used to absorb EMI. I personally have had mixed results trying it where they are usually used outside of part of ground box mix. The following are two uses that work and used kind of similar to Shakti Stones or Onlines. The effects are subtle to a bit more than subtle. But when one finds the placement that improves or gels with the systems synergy the cumulative effects are welcomed. And the cost is very negligible, 2lb bag is about $25.
How I am using it mainly is with AC power or with/on the side of SMPS. On top of a ground box could add a bit of mid to top end spice. Must just try it at different places and listen to see if you like what it does. If ones system is a bit too dark, this will also help open up the system.
* If you look carefully at the pics, you can see small bags on top of the AC connector end of power cords. I like the effect here.
* I also place the Rochelle Salt inside small zip lock bags and place them in the 2.25" wide x 7/8" high x 3 7/8" long ABS enclosures. The feet I use under the small enclosures are small round silicone feet I got on Amazon. I use these like small Shatki Stones and place them on top of the ground boxes and the Furutech PLC in the pic.
Attachments
Well Tripoint is chassis ground !
cdacosta
Headphoneus Supremus
I have seen a couple of Tripoint installations in the past, but not as familiar with the tech as passive ground filtering devices. The installs I saw were not wired from the Tripoint unit to chassis of components. IIRC the components were plugged into the Tripoint device. But there could be other install options. Or they may offer different designed devices.
With passive ground box devices, my experience with them Have shown me what best practices are. I suggest others to try and experience it for themselves so they will know.
Hi @cdacosta ,
This tweak is similar to wrapping the cords with magnetite.
I bought 1 Kg of magnetite, and plastic bags, but did not have time for this project.
Is it better to wrap them instead with Rochelle Salt?
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cdacosta
Headphoneus Supremus
Not the same. Wrapping the center of a power cord with Magnetite disrupts the magnetic field around the power cord. Which happens to improve the performance of the power cord.
Rochelle salt used outside of a ground box mineral mix, absorbs EMI. Or possibly disrupts the EMI.
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