[dougms3]

There seems to be alot of valuable information regarding ground boxes that is getting lost in the volume of posts in the aliexpress thread. cdacosta and others have provided alot of great info regarding the materials used to make these ground boxes and I'm not sure about anyone else but I had a hell of a time searching for the info in the other thread. I think its best to post it here so its easier to reference.

I'll just create the thread because you guys are so lazy

@cdacosta @Crypt Keeper @DecentLevi @Jake2 @basillus @Dandoudou @FredA @KT77 @msing539 @saldsald

Please excuse me if I forgot to tag anyone.

Update on the Aliexpress graphite powder and mixing with Tourmaline mixes and Magnetite by itself or mixes. Also the mix I am using for these ground boxes.

The graphite does what I mentioned before, and is definitely for the money worth it. Works mixed with either Tourmaline and Magnetite mixes. Basically adds a bit more micro resolution, quieter background, even more improvement to timbre, and a bit more air and refinement to top end. Gives a "feel" of beauty and delicacy to instrumental notes, mid frequencies and up, extremely hard to put into words. This is for the entire frequency spectrum.

Very little is needed for a 3kg - 4kg mix. In one of the pics with the graphite bottle is also a white plastic spoon. With amp Tourmaline mix, 4 small heaping spoon full of graphite. I am adding while I am listening. With the DAC Magnetite mixes, 2 spoon full. Any more than just mentioned and the system tonality changes. Adding more than noted the system starts to get brighter and leaner starting at the mids on up. This is why I started experimenting by adding addition Magnetite mass by chaining to another approx. 1.5kg of Magnetite and that balances and as crazy as it sounds improved tonality balance.

Here are the ingredients I have in the two types of ground boxes I made, specifically for the amp and DAC. Have not experimented with the Magnetite mixes on the PC and Router/Modem yet. All of these ground boxes are for "signal ground filtering", have not tried AC ground yet. I mention "about" because I added and adjusted amounts while tuning across time:

All boxes are the same purchased from Amazon. Internal wood mated seams reinforced with E6000. No copper shielding except on the ground box attached to the Router/Modem. The amp and DAC ground box do not like any shielding or large copper plates inside the box, degrades performance.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08P2N1922/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

All binding posts are pure copper from Aliexpress
Footers used are the .75" Platinum domes from Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075KK8WXM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Jotunheim 2 amp ground box: Main ingredient is Tourmaline
- Tourmaline chips - AA+ grade (eBay), about 3 lbs
- Tourmaline - Brazilian black Tourmaline powder (eBay), about 0.6 lbs
- Natural Shungite rough chips sized 5mm - 15mm (eBay), about 0.25 lbs
- Sodium Tartrate (Rochelle Salt) eBay - 0.3 lbs
- Silver plated 12ga. copper 5", just placed inside mix. (Aliexpress) I wanted to hear what silver does to the mix. May still add more later.
- Pure Rock Salt (Morton Pure and Natural purchased at Home Depot) - about 2 lbs
- Military Grade Graphite Powder (Aliexpress) - 4 plastic spoon full
- Pure Tungsten, sand sized (Aliexpress) - about 30 grams

Proceed DAP (older NOS R2R DAC) ground box x2, one is for digital output and one for analog output: Main ingredient is Magnetite
- Magnetite, High purity sand (eBay), about 7.25 lbs
- Natural Shungite rough chips sized 5mm - 15mm (eBay), about 0.25 lbs
- Sodium Tartrate (Rochelle Salt) eBay - 0.3 lbs
- Silver plated 12ga. copper fine cut up pieces from 24" length or so wire. (Aliexpress)
- Pure Rock Salt (Morton Pure and Natural purchased at Home Depot) - about 1 lb
- Military Grade Graphite Powder (Aliexpress) - 2 plastic spoon full
- Pure Tungsten, sand sized (Aliexpress) - about 35 grams

Before the ground boxes were added, this system was already highly tweaked, and sounded fantastic. With these ground boxes, system sounds absolutely stunning. Literally an entirely different performance level. Anyhoos, just wanted to share the mix I am using as I mentioned previously I would. Hopefully someone will benefit or save them time if they want to go this path.

Original post with pictures.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-175#post-17344726

Ground box journey update...

* Graphite added to ingredient mix works well, just as I described previously. What I found out is that with Magnetite mixes use very small amount like two of those plastic spoon for 3-4kg of material mix. Otherwise will change sonic signature toward neutral. But with Tourmaline mix more can be added and will not change the sonic signature, only enhance performance.

* In the pic there is a jumper going from the box mix going to digital output of DAC to another 3.4kg bag of Magnetite. Previously was about 1.5kg. Adding the 1.5kg to the existing 3.7kg-4kg mix added a bit more micro detail, a bit more body to presentation, tiny bit more improved decay and a bit more separation of all sounds. This effect was across the frequency spectrum. Changing the 1.5kg to 3.4kg. was a larger difference/improvement in performance. I was feeling I must be hitting or getting close to a performance ceiling until the bump to 3.4kg added to mass. So this taught me that mass matters more then I thought. The theory by Entreq and a couple of other manufacturers of these devices is the mass of material dictates how much stray current, noise and static electricity can be drawn, trapped and dissipated from the line level signal. No idea how much of this is nonsense but seems mass to size of component as a rule of thumb works. The biggest difference is added micro detail and nuance with decaying notes across the frequency spectrum. When listening to this change makes the presentation more grand sounding and more refined.

Today I will be getting more Magnetite and some different gauge 6N OCC Single Crystal Copper with Teflon jacket from Aliexpress. This wire has the same specs as the Neotech I got from Sonic Craft, but at 1/5th the price. I am off the next two days and will test the wire against VH-Audio OFC and the Neotech. Also will test adding another 3.4kg+ to the second analog output on the DAC to see if this does anything. This is what the empty box in the pic is for, to house the material during testing. Currently only one of the two analog signal outputs are being filtered. When I tried attaching both analog outputs to the same 4kg. box there was smearing and degraded performance. I will be placing a second 3.4kg to 4kg mix to the second output to see what happens.

To make the above clearer to understand. Since bumping the digital output filtering mass from 4kg to 7.4kg improved performance, I will be setting up the analog outputs so they will have 3.4kg+ per left and right channel. Currently only one analog output channel is being filtered with a 4kg. box. At the same time I will test or compare the 6N OCC Single Crystal Copper with Teflon jacket from Aliexpress with what I have on hand. Will update on what I find out...

My mix:

Magnetite 75-80 %, Himalayan pink salt 25-20% .

Some: Shungite, Black tourmaline, Carbon charcoal, Pink and White quartz

A few spoons of: Pure Tungsten and graphene powder (would like to use silver powder as well, but it’s too expensive ATM)

Large rocks : Pink and white quartz, Tourmaline ...


My boxes: 10.71x8x5.66 , 10" x 7" x 3.9 , 9.6"L x 5.9"W x 4.3"H and “standard small ” boxes.

3 coats of YShield RF Shielding Paint + 1 coat of Krylon K02702007 Fusion All-In-One Spray Paint.

Each box gets about 5-10 % of pure copper (0.4mm, 0.3mm, 1 mm ) Sheets + M8 Copper Washers.

Xangsane pure copper carbon fiber rhodium-plated posts / 2 per box + Nano liquid.

Inside wires: 2.5 and 0.75 Sq Wires, Valhalla cores, Cheap version Odin2 cores, Pure Silver 0.5mm wires.


Footers: Hudson Hi-Fi (0.75) and https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832725412366.html (Cheaper version)

If you come across the older posts in the aliexpress thread with more info in them. Please pm me with links to the posts and I'll update this first post.

 

[Ghoostknight]

Hello,

i made a thread here a couple of weeks ago: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tourmaline-gadgets-tweaks.968020/

can you say something about the single ingredients? how did you get infos on what to use?

i really just tried tourmaline so far and the effect is also stunnig but im wondering what other crystals can do

recently i heared about shungite which might play nicely with tourmaline ... shungite can carry electricity just like a cable and tourmaline is said to absorb electricity near by... i wonder how they play together, i will soon try

 

[dougms3]

Hello,

i made a thread here a couple of weeks ago: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tourmaline-gadgets-tweaks.968020/

can you say something about the single ingredients? how did you get infos on what to use?

i really just tried tourmaline so far and the effect is also stunnig but im wondering what other crystals can do

recently i heared about shungite which might play nicely with tourmaline ... shungite can carry electricity just like a cable and tourmaline is said to absorb electricity near by... i wonder how they play together, i will soon try

Oops, oh well, another one won't hurt anything

I'm not exactly sure how these things work if I'm being completely honest.

I do know that they affect the EMF. Anything that carries power inherently has an EMF.

How exactly it works is beyond me but we do know it has a very drastic effect on the sound.

Looking forward to hearing the results of your experiments. Collectively, we can find solutions faster and better than individually. This is not a popular topic yet yields very noticeable improvements, and who knows sometimes people find creative applications that others may not have thought of.

 

[Jake2]

There seems to be alot of valuable information regarding ground boxes that is getting lost in the volume of posts in the aliexpress thread. cdacosta and others have provided alot of great info regarding the materials used to make these ground boxes and I'm not sure about anyone else but I had a hell of a time searching for the info in the other thread. I think its best to post it here so its easier to reference.

I'll just create the thread because you guys are so lazy

@cdacosta @Crypt Keeper @DecentLevi @Jake2 @basillus @Dandoudou @FredA @KT77 @msing539 @saldsald

Please excuse me if I forgot to tag anyone.



Original post with pictures.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/page-175#post-17344726



If you come across the older posts in the aliexpress thread with more info in them. Please pm me with links to the posts and I'll update this first post.

Love it, cheers Doug

 

[Ghoostknight]

I'm not exactly sure how these things work if I'm being completely honest.

but did you tried them one by one or just made a mix to start with?

I do know that they affect the EMF. Anything that carries power inherently has an EMF.

there is alot of talk about black tourmaline in german forums, black tourmaline absorbs electric radation and turns it into heat on a micro-level (these are facts but some people (nonbelievers) claim its so little that it shouldnt have a effect)

shungite can "block" emf but in another way: electricity can flow trough shungite (thats also a easy test to see if you got legit shungite, you can control a touchscreen of a phone with just the stone touching the panel (and you holding it), there is no other similar looking stone that can do this
since it acts as a similar "metal" mass (like a aluminium plate) it can block EMF, just like aluminium does, even if its not connected to ground
(but regarding shungite, purely objectivly speaking, this also opens to question wether a simple alu plate would have the same effect, if there are no other contributers)

in the german forums about black tourmaline there is a general concent that
1. the finer the tourmaline is crushed the better it can absorb EMF, since the crystal structure needs to be in a specific orientation compared to the electric field, if you crush it finer the more likely you get more pieces aligned right
2. more copper surface area is beneficial, since more tourmaline is around a electric field this way
for both there are many reports on the benefits on the german forums

thats also why i wonder how shungite and tourmaline plays together, in theory shungite should extend the surface area that can run electricity

i also saw this video before seeing the other video saying its a aprils fools, but i already tested it and quartz placed near speakers seem to actually have an effect (but i dont really like it compared to black tourmaline)
there is also talk about placing tourmaline on top of your gear in the german forums saying it has similar effects to modified chinch plugs or grounding boxes, which i can support now
but i just tried a few crystals yet
(btw scientific speaking quartz vibrates on a micro level, thats how quartz clocks are made)
i also tried some other crystals, amethyst had similar effects to quartz, which makes sense since its a different kind of quartz
onyx and some unnamed crystals i tried didnt had a meaningful effect

in search of new crystals i stumpled around shungite and wanna order and try it soon, because esoterics talk heavly about it

so currently i can just say something about the effects of black tourmaline and quartz (and funny enough they seem to be kinda inline with what esoterics say about "healing stones")
black tourmaline has a kind of calming effect ( i really like it ! )
quartz is kinda "energizing/uplifting"

one point that is really interesting since i read it alot about diy grounding boxes is saying that wood enclosure is more effective than aluminium, could it be that our perception is altered by the crystals without aluminium "blocking" it again? but this gets more on a esoteric side, but i think its a interesting correlation between things
speaking about tourmaline, in theory it shouldnt have a negative effect on tourmaline since a grounded aluminium enclosure just provides more surface area, which is generally speaking good

i just thought i might share my current knowledge i plan to make a series of chinch plugs (well mini grounding boxes if you wanna say so) with different crystals to be able to really differentiate them and see what i like the most

How exactly it works is beyond me but we do know it has a very drastic effect on the sound.

indeed but how it works is the really interesting part imo, honestly it sounds like magic...

Looking forward to hearing the results of your experiments. Collectively, we can find solutions faster and better than individually. This is not a popular topic yet yields very noticeable improvements, and who knows sometimes people find creative applications that others may not have thought of.

indeed! and i dont wanna spend 1k$ on some ready made grounding boxes if a little research is all we need!

 

[DecentLevi]

And here was a follow-up and summary of the formula from @cdacosta that I used to get started on mine:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/post-17548060

 

[dougms3]

but did you tried them one by one or just made a mix to start with?


there is alot of talk about black tourmaline in german forums, black tourmaline absorbs electric radation and turns it into heat on a micro-level (these are facts but some people (nonbelievers) claim its so little that it shouldnt have a effect)

shungite can "block" emf but in another way: electricity can flow trough shungite (thats also a easy test to see if you got legit shungite, you can control a touchscreen of a phone with just the stone touching the panel (and you holding it), there is no other similar looking stone that can do this
since it acts as a similar "metal" mass (like a aluminium plate) it can block EMF, just like aluminium does, even if its not connected to ground
(but regarding shungite, purely objectivly speaking, this also opens to question wether a simple alu plate would have the same effect, if there are no other contributers)

in the german forums about black tourmaline there is a general concent that
1. the finer the tourmaline is crushed the better it can absorb EMF, since the crystal structure needs to be in a specific orientation compared to the electric field, if you crush it finer the more likely you get more pieces aligned right
2. more copper surface area is beneficial, since more tourmaline is around a electric field this way
for both there are many reports on the benefits on the german forums

thats also why i wonder how shungite and tourmaline plays together, in theory shungite should extend the surface area that can run electricity

i also saw this video before seeing the other video saying its a aprils fools, but i already tested it and quartz placed near speakers seem to actually have an effect (but i dont really like it compared to black tourmaline)
there is also talk about placing tourmaline on top of your gear in the german forums saying it has similar effects to modified chinch plugs or grounding boxes, which i can support now
but i just tried a few crystals yet
(btw scientific speaking quartz vibrates on a micro level, thats how quartz clocks are made)
i also tried some other crystals, amethyst had similar effects to quartz, which makes sense since its a different kind of quartz
onyx and some unnamed crystals i tried didnt had a meaningful effect

in search of new crystals i stumpled around shungite and wanna order and try it soon, because esoterics talk heavly about it

so currently i can just say something about the effects of black tourmaline and quartz (and funny enough they seem to be kinda inline with what esoterics say about "healing stones")
black tourmaline has a kind of calming effect ( i really like it ! )
quartz is kinda "energizing/uplifting"

one point that is really interesting since i read it alot about diy grounding boxes is saying that wood enclosure is more effective than aluminium, could it be that our perception is altered by the crystals without aluminium "blocking" it again? but this gets more on a esoteric side, but i think its a interesting correlation between things
speaking about tourmaline, in theory it shouldnt have a negative effect on tourmaline since a grounded aluminium enclosure just provides more surface area, which is generally speaking good

i just thought i might share my current knowledge i plan to make a series of chinch plugs (well mini grounding boxes if you wanna say so) with different crystals to be able to really differentiate them and see what i like the most


indeed but how it works is the really interesting part imo, honestly it sounds like magic...


indeed! and i dont wanna spend 1k$ on some ready made grounding boxes if a little research is all we need!

I myself have not tried the ground box yet. I have tried the little grounding tubes on aliexpress and they make a noticeable impact on the sound.

I will try it at a certain point when I have more free time.

I would question anyone stating that something absorbs an EMF, I am not an expert nor do I know specifically how it works but its definitely not that.

I'm more interested in the scientific explanation of why these things work. I doubt there are many quantum physicists among us to explain certain things but we know these things work, we just don't know why, lets not deviate with conjecture or theories.

This is good basic explanation of EMF from a reliable source.

 

[Ghoostknight]

this atleast shows that schungit can indeed let electrcity/emf flow if its grounded, but it also shows that a ungrounded metal mass actually spreads emf if ungrounded

also there are scientific "papers" about tourmaline and its "piezoelectric effect"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectricity
it can 1. produce electricity if pressure or heat is applied
2. it can transfer electricity back to heat on a "micro-level"

i by no means say it absorbs all emf 100% ... but it may help reduce it to some degree and the piezoelectric effect might be one explanation why we hear differences

Edit: it might be worth trying other piezoelectric materials, tourmaline is just one of them

 

[dougms3]

this atleast shows that schungit can indeed let electrcity/emf flow if its grounded, but it also shows that a ungrounded metal mass actually spreads emf if ungrounded

also there are scientific "papers" about tourmaline and its "piezoelectric effect"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectricity
it can 1. produce electricity if pressure or heat is applied
2. it can transfer electricity back to heat on a "micro-level"

i by no means say it absorbs all emf 100% ... but it may help reduce it to some degree and the piezoelectric effect might be one explanation why we hear differences

Edit: it might be worth trying other piezoelectric materials, tourmaline is just one of them

In chemistry and physics, there is a law called the conservation of energy which states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it can only be transformed or transferred from one form to another.

The EMF on a cable is a part of the power, no power no EMF.

If you are saying the energy is being "absorbed" from the EMF to something else, it will manifest itself as a different form of energy, heat, light, pressure, whatever. The piezoelectric effect is a form of energy transfer, the word piezoelectricity means electricity resulting from pressure and latent heat. What do think is happening when you say the tourmaline is absorbing the EMF?

As I said, we know the ground boxes work, any explanation as to why is pretty much conjecture or personal theory unless you have direct links to these "scientific papers", lets not present these things as if they were definitive facts, this is deviating from the topic.

It might save you alot of time if you look at the DIY ground box recipe, there are alot of other materials in there besides the tourmaline. They all have an effect on EMFs.

 

[Ghoostknight]

What do think is happening when you say the tourmaline is absorbing the EMF?

its "absorbing" emf/electricity in form of transfering it to heat/deformation of the crystals, maybe i shouldnt have picked the work "absorbing" but its basicly what it does on a small level

As I said, we know the ground boxes work, any explanation as to why is pretty much conjecture or personal theory unless you have direct links to these "scientific papers", lets not present these things as if they were definitive facts, this is deviating from the topic.

just google piezoelectric
well i think its a interesting correlation and definitely -on topic-
while there might be different reasons why we hear a difference, ignoring any hint to why we might hear a difference is not the way to improve things

It might save you alot of time if you look at the DIY ground box recipe, there are alot of other materials in there besides the tourmaline. They all have an effect on EMFs.

how you know? while i appreciate any opinion/test done i wonder who came up with this recipe and for what reasons he picked the different materials

 

[dougms3]

its "absorbing" emf/electricity in form of transfering it to heat/deformation of the crystals, maybe i shouldnt have picked the work "absorbing" but its basicly what it does on a small level


just google piezoelectric
well i think its a interesting correlation and definitely -on topic-
while there might be different reasons why we hear a difference, ignoring any hint to why we might hear a difference is not the way to improve things


how you know? while i appreciate any opinion/test done i wonder who came up with this recipe and for what reasons he picked the different materials

So then its a word you just decided to incorrectly use. Because if it did convert to heat/deformation of the crystals?, thats a transfer of energy and not absorbtion but either way it doesn't matter because you don't have any references that tourmaline converts EMFs into heat/deformation of the crystals (crystals of what?).

I think I made it clear, I know what piezoelectric effect is, I'm not sure you understand it. Piezoelectricity literally means electricity resulting from pressure and latent heat, where is the pressure/heat coming from or going to with tourmaline.

These are not definitive facts, they are your personal theories, feel free to post that in your own thread and not here.

Add or don't add whatever you want, you don't have to inform me. Again, I am not the person who created the recipe, I just posted it to share the valuable info because that person has worked with companies to make grounding boxes and has 25+ years of tweaking things in this hobby. Feel free to ask him why he chose those ingredients.

https://www.open-end-music.com/foru...-rudolph-tmr/15778-t-u-r-m-a-l-i-n#post376871

Btw if this is the german forum you're referring to, just fyi thats not a quantum physics forum.

 

[Ghoostknight]

Piezoelectricity literally means electricity resulting from pressure and latent heat, where is the pressure/heat coming from or going to with tourmaline.

this works in both ways... electricity to heat/crystal deformation or heat/pressure to electricity, fyi

Edit: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/piezoelectric-effect

but whatever mate, im not here to argue with you, believe what you want
i was just saying this could be one of the reasons why we might hear differences...

https://www.open-end-music.com/foru...-rudolph-tmr/15778-t-u-r-m-a-l-i-n#post376871

Btw if this is the german forum you're referring to, just fyi thats not a quantum physics forum.

yes thats the one, well just like any other music forum, i guess

Edit: also im unsure about the whole "absorbtion" discussion, nearly everything that "absorbs" stuff (like dampning, accoustic absorption) relys on "transfer of energy" to actually "absorb" the stuff we want to "go away", it still absorbs even if the underlying mechanism is a transfer of energy... i may be wrong, but whatever

 

[Jake2]

Totally irrelevant to the above discussion, or as far as I know to acoustics generally, but I thought I'd just mention the cool term 'adsorb' - which activated carbon does with certain gas molecules - basically they stick to the many tiny, fractal-like pockets in its crazy big surface area and they get stuck there as a super thin layer.

 

[dougms3]

this works in both ways... electricity to heat/crystal deformation or heat/pressure to electricity, fyi

Edit: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/piezoelectric-effect

but whatever mate, im not here to argue with you, believe what you want
i was just saying this could be one of the reasons why we might hear differences...


yes thats the one, well just like any other music forum, i guess

Edit: also im unsure about the whole "absorbtion" discussion, nearly everything that "absorbs" stuff (like dampning, accoustic absorption) relys on "transfer of energy" to actually "absorb" the stuff we want to "go away", it still absorbs even if the underlying mechanism is a transfer of energy... i may be wrong, but whatever

Yeah again, I think I made it clear for a normal person, that I understand what the piezoelectric effect is. If I didn't, I would say I do not understand what the piezoelectric effect is, but I said the opposite so you don't need to post links to things you yourself haven't read.

Where is the heat going? What in this case is the crystal deformation of? Is it the tourmaline? cable? If I make a drawing, are you able to point to it? Still waiting on links to those "scientific papers".

Believe what? Hear what? I told you, I didn't try it. I don't know what you're talking about...mate.

You made a claim that it works by "absorbing" EMFs, I told you my thoughts regarding that. You're reaching awfully hard in an attempt to not be wrong. I guess you shouldnt have went all in on that whole absorption thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

This is a law in chemistry and physics, meaning anything that is not in accord with this, is incorrect.

At this point, you're only here to argue.

 

[Ghoostknight]

Yeah again, I think I made it clear for a normal person, that I understand what the piezoelectric effect is.

well apparently not if you ask questions like this:

Where is the heat going? What in this case is the crystal deformation of? Is it the tourmaline? cable?

You made a claim that it works by "absorbing" EMFs, I told you my thoughts regarding that. You're reaching awfully hard in an attempt to not be wrong. I guess you shouldnt have went all in on that whole absorption thing.

lol, i didnt went all in, i said this could be one potential reason, i also didnt stated "facts" like you seem to believe

1. tourmaline has a piezoelectric effect, scientifically proven, i guess
2. we hear differences in applying specific minerals/crystals
3. the piezoelectric effect might be one reason why we hear differences
4. end of story...