[Paladin79]

Here are photos of a hot knife I talked about in a previous post. Great for cutting paracord and even heat shrink tubing if you are quick lol. I am working with some custom cables while employees are on vacation so if you are interested in any photos showing soldering technique or associated skills I can probably get some photos easily enough.

 

[Allanmarcus]

Yeah, It is a pretty good adapter. I don't know why I'm getting a difference in sound. Is there any way to change it? Or is this just something that comes with the DIY territory and using different materials?

Yeah, for sure. I used some heatshrink to hold the braided sleeve to the wire, and then one more layer over it it secure the sleeve to the jacks which I over heated a bit so it would sort of melt into the grooves of the braided sleeve. Now the sleeve is very secure. If you look closely at that heat shrink you can see the light marks of the braid. This sacrificed a bit of flexibility, but it's ok since this wire is not very flexible all-together with all the layers.

Here are a few things I would try.

1) set your multi-meter to Ohm/automatic. Probe left/right, left/common, right/common. All of these should report 0 ohm as there should be no resistance between two things that should not be connected. If you get another other reading, you have something going on. Might be a short, Might be a fluty cable. Might be a faulty connector. Might be a faulty solder joint.

2) If all the Ohm readings are fine, I would simply reflow the joints.

 

[penmarker]

If i want to make a cable with 8 wire braid, how is it wired?
3L, 3R, 2Ground?

***edit
Oh wait sorry.
so 8 wires, divide into 2 for L R channel = 4 wires each
at the TRS jack, combine -ve from L R = 2L + 2R

That means there will be 2 wires on Tip, 2 wires on Ring, 4 wires on Sleeve right?

Correct

Thank you very much Allanmarcus.
Part 2 of this question

If I'm wiring a headphone with single side termination like the AKG K551, how do I go about doing that?
There are 3 solder pads for L+, R+, Gnd and 8 cores. Should I divide the 8 cores into 3 as best as I can?

Headphone side: 3 L+, 3 R+, 2 Gnd

Or do I still follow the previous config for dual termination headphones?

Headphone side: 2 L+, 2 R+, 4 Gnd.

Neither choices look symmetrical, so I am not too sure as to which to use. (the only symmetrical decision is omitting 2 cores so it is 2+2+2 on both headphone and stereo jack)
Will there be any difference?

 

[Bubblejuice]

You can change the connectors on the adapter but I doubt that would change the sound. If there is anyone out there who can actually hear a difference between connectors I have yet to meet them. I have heard cables that can track sound more accurately than others, or cables that offer a different sound when hand braided (could be from a lack of shielding or poor construction) but at such a short distance I am not sure what to say. Impedance is less of a factor at short distances,( under a meter I believe) and that is made up of inductive reactance, capacitive reactance and resistance. Please do not take this the wrong way but sometimes you can go into a test expecting a difference. I recently read where the same wine was put in two different bottles, one was marked $20, the other $5.00 and sommeliers consistently picked the $20 bottle as the better. The labels were reversed without them seeing it and then the opposite wines were chosen when marked $20. You did a sort of blind test by having someone else listen so you were as objective as possible and if the tests were done the same way, there probably is a difference. Audio can be a funny thing sometimes. I also once read where there were some blind tests done with speaker wires where the equipment was totally covered. 7 of 10 people chose some $1.00 cables over some that were $100 up and they were supposed audiophiles. On the adapter you built, make absolutely certain the channels were not reversed and that you are getting good channel separation, if all things are equal, and your diy cable is built properly, it must be a slight difference in the wire itself IMHO>

I agree with that 100%. But I honestly was not expecting a difference. I thought a cable was just a cable and it would sound identical. However, after using it normally for about 30 minutes, I realized there was something off about the sound. Not bad, just different. Then I did a blind test where I had my brother change the cables back and forth while I looked the other way. I could tell clearly which was which after many tries.

I'm not sure what it could be. The channels are definitely right. I actually mixed them up at first on one end and had to cut the wire, clean up the leads, and re-solder them the right way. It works just fine too, everything is great, it just sounds different which really caught me off guard.

Can different wire usually make an audible difference?

 

[Bubblejuice]

Here are a few things I would try.

1) set your multi-meter to Ohm/automatic. Probe left/right, left/common, right/common. All of these should report 0 ohm as there should be no resistance between two things that should not be connected. If you get another other reading, you have something going on. Might be a short, Might be a fluty cable. Might be a faulty connector. Might be a faulty solder joint.

2) If all the Ohm readings are fine, I would simply reflow the joints.

I checked continuity with my multimeter before finalizing the build. I wasn't getting any shorts it seems and the wires seemed to be working. I mean, I'm not getting any noise or cutting, it's just a sound signature change. I'll go ahead and try again though, I just hope my leads can reach inside the 1/4" jack leads.

I also made sure the wire was securely looped on the lead before soldering, and then make sure to solder just enough so it had a firm hold. The leads are all separated by a bit a hot glue, just in case.

What is reflow?

 

[Allanmarcus]

Penmarker:

2 x right x hot
2 x right x common
2 x left x hot
2 x left x common

Perfect symmetry, except 4 wires in this case are connected to ground.



Bubblejiuce:
I didn't suggest checking continuity, I suggested checking resistance, there is a difference. I has a cable with no continuity between hot and ground, but did have resistance. There was a channel imbalance. Turned out I had a defective plug.

"Reflow" a solder joint means to apply the hot soldering iron to the solder joint again to reheat the solder to liquid state again, and possibly adding a tad more solder, then remove the iron and let the joint cool naturally. This procedures makes sure the joint is good and that a good contact is make. There is no way you can look at a joint and know it's good.

 

[Paladin79]

Um, there is a way to look at a solder joint and have a pretty good idea if it is good or bad. A good solder joint should appear shiny, cold solder joints tend to have a milky color and can look more grainy. You can also tug on the wires especially if using Chinese connectors that do not have solder lugs. (I can generally tell by inspecting these which joints will not hold, solder should flow and not be globbed onto a connector side.) You can also look to see that the solder flowed all around the conductors in question. Solder inspection can be done, and has been done for decades. There are inspectors in factories who do little else. (I have worked in some so I know. I have also had six weeks of solder training and have taught electronics and soldering for many years.)

One tip that might help when checking a female 3.5 mm or female quarter inch connector is to have a male connector unassembled with the head shell off to plug into said connector. You can then measure male to male using the contacts inside the male connector. One of the first mistakes my people tend to make is to think a female connector is wired the same as a male. On a male connector, ring (red wire) is on the right, on a female connector, ring is on the left as you face the back of a connector. Plugging a male connector into the back of a female then measuring can make sure you have right to right and left to left.

Now as far as resistance, you can have an open state, a shorted state and something called a high impedance short. The last can occur if you get certain types of wire dielectric too hot. One cable can sound louder than another and this occurs more in coaxial cable. A poor solder can cause an intermittent condition where you move the wire around and sometimes it makes contact, sometimes it does not. My people always test for this by moving the wires as they test for resistance. Otherwise to merely measure, the wire might be making contact right then.

 

[Allanmarcus]

"Um, there is a way to look at a solder joint and have a pretty good idea if it is good or bad"

True. For a really experienced person. For the average DIYer, reflowing the joints is a good rule of thumb troubleshooting technique I learned from building my crack amp and reading expert advice on the bottlehead forum.

 

[Paladin79]

I hope it is true, I said it lol. We generally teach people the first day of soldering what a solder joint should look like so it really does not take a lot of experience to learn shiny from dull but I do understand what you are saying. Companies like Bottlehead have to provide info to cover any level of experience. I have seen some of their "expert" advice and most is quite sound. We generally teach people to do it correctly so they do not have to go back over it. I built two crack amps, Dynaco equipment, an oscilloscope, fm radio, cap meter, and designed and built my own electronics but everyone has to start somewhere. I do this for a living as well as a hobby. It is never a bad idea to tell someone what a result should be like and I have posted plenty of pictures of proper solder joints.

Companies like Kester do the same thing, they post photos of what a solder joint should and should not look like. If you learn some basics and do it right the first time there is little need to go back and reflow solder. Think about it, even if you do that, it is a good idea to have a basic concept of what the end result should look like.

I am not trying to give you a hard time Allan, I just looked at the statement "There is no way to look at a solder joint and know if it is good or bad."

I recently repaired an amp that someone was going to toss by just looking at the solder joints. (I got it free and it is a very good amp.) I only hit those I knew were bad and left the good ones alone. Soldering is a very basic part of electronics and not a hard thing to learn to do, and to learn to do well.

 

[penmarker]

Penmarker:

2 x right x hot
2 x right x common
2 x left x hot
2 x left x common

Perfect symmetry, exec though 4 wires in this case are connected to ground.

I see, thank you very much. It bugs my eyes visually but electrically it should look good from the equipment.

 

[Paladin79]

If I get a chance I will try to post a small list of basics on soldering along with photos so those new to soldering will have a good idea what to look for.

 

[Allanmarcus]

If I get a chance I will try to post a small list of basics on soldering along with photos so those new to soldering will have a good idea what to look for.

Thanks Tom. There's tons on the Web on what is a good joint, and what is a "cold joint". Here's a good one:

here's another with lugs

Let us examine the lugs numbered left to right.

1. This one is just about perfect. All wires and the surface of the lug are covered with solder. Although it doesn't show in the photo there is no ball of solder on the back. This is sometimes a mistake of those with limited experience.
2. There are only two wires in this lug and both of them are soldered on both front and back. Even so, the joint likely would be rejected by quality control. However there is no law that says you have to fill the hole. The advantage of this soldering job is that it would be easy to add wires to this lug later. Since writing this I have been informed that production lines which are assembling tube equipment in the old way don't want the hole filled. This allows the quality control inspector to easily tell a good soldering job from a bad one. That makes sense to me. So don't fill the hole and you'll likely pass QC.
3. In this one the solderer has applied enough heat but used far too much solder. Always watch where your solder is going. It is likely you think you don't have quite enough solder on a lug but it is just running away as fast as you apply it. The mane mistake made here was to hold the iron on the lug much too long applying too much heat and too much solder. When the lug is covered, take away the heat and solder. Know when to stop. If this terminal strip had been mounted in a real chassis the solder would have run down and shorted the lug to ground causing lots of headaches. I know because that has happened to me.
4. This is the common mistake of rank beginners. The soldering iron was held above the lug, the solder melted and dropped onto the lug. The solder did adhere but the wires did not benefit from contact with the hot solder. The bottom wire is free to move around.
5. This lug has two wires in it. The top wire was soldered very well but the bottom one was missed completely. A mistake of this kind usually happens when there are a large number of wires in the lug and the bottom one gets missed.
6. The last one illustrates the breadboarding technique. The hook has been left more open then is recommended to show the principle more clearly.

My point is that even with a good solder joint, or one that appears good, a good troubleshooting technique is to reflow the joint to be sure it's good, that's all.

 

[Paladin79]

I totally understand what you are were saying Allan. I only disagreed with one sentence about you cannot look at a solder joint and tell if it is good or bad. I agree with," if you are new to soldering and you are not sure if your solder joints are correct then you should go back over them and reflow the solder."

There are countless examples out there of new electronic product that has had issues with new ROHS solder. I have repaired many things by just looking over the solder joints and knowing what to look for so that is very good info and what you posted Allan may well help someone fix a home electronic device down the road, or a cable that has become intermittent.

 

[1yay1]

Question about wiring, i got the sommer cable peacock for my hd800.
I plan to wire it for balanced, and use an adapter for unbalanced amp.
if i got this correct, i would wire the shield of each cable to the ground tab on the xlr, wire the red/white cable to + and -, and on the headphone side only wire the + and -, and not solder the shield?
then for the trs jack adapter (would use same cable), i would wire the shield on the xlr female side, but don't wire it on the trs jack? attach left and right minus to sleeve of the trs jack.

talking about this cable: https://www.rapidonline.com/sommer-cable-sc-peacock-mkii-speaker-cable-549508

i'm using neutrik jacks for everything else (XLR male, XLR female, TRS male)

 

[Paladin79]

Question about wiring, i got the sommer cable peacock for my hd800.
I plan to wire it for balanced, and use an adapter for unbalanced amp.
if i got this correct, i would wire the shield of each cable to the ground tab on the xlr, wire the red/white cable to + and -, and on the headphone side only wire the + and -, and not solder the shield?
then for the trs jack adapter (would use same cable), i would wire the shield on the xlr female side, but don't wire it on the trs jack? attach left and right minus to sleeve of the trs jack.

talking about this cable: https://www.rapidonline.com/sommer-cable-sc-peacock-mkii-speaker-cable-549508

i'm using neutrik jacks for everything else (XLR male, XLR female, TRS male)

You are talking about four pin xlr's correct? The only thing I can tell you for sure so far is you do not want to run a shield to ground connections on any two connectors in series. You mentioned running it to a ground tab on the xlr, maybe you meant the shield tab? You have me a bit confused but in a four wire system you have two positives and two grounds and you have a shield in this case. The two negatives from the headphones would end up going to the sleeve of a trs connector and the two positives to the tip and ring respectively. If you attach the shield to the sleeve on an xlr that would still be ok if you are connecting two xlrs together, neither would be taking the shield to ground as such so that would be safe as well.