[Orpheus]

yeah... that's what i took both you and Jude to be arguing with me about.

but you see, this whole thread was about a dissection. you're right, Jude first started as saying that this cable didn't do much good for him... so he opened it up.

but he IS using this quote in this thread. why? because he wants to compare this cable with more expensive ones, cause VD says this cable has a "value" of $500.

now, in a way, he's using this quote as an excuse, or justification for comparing with cables 10x its price. comparing with more expensive cables is fine!--i have no problem with that. he can compare with $5000 cables for all i care. but this has nothing to do with VD's claims. so, he has no right to use VD's quote in conjuntion with this dissection. do you know what i mean?

this dissection is entirely permissible as long as he makes no reference to VD's quote.

no matter what Jude's intentions were, including this quote in a thread about dissection clearly is relating these two subjects in some way. there's no way around it. can you see how that is?

the only reason i made any argument was that i read the 40 or so replies this thread had, and i was just thinking i had something to say... even if i am wrong in making this argument... i'm probably not the only one. others are also thinking you unjustly evaluating VD's claims. and this is dangerous, because you are devaluing a company's product... so such subject matters need to be very carefully approached. especially devaluing a company's credulity (? did i spell that right)... anyway... i think that borders on U.S. law... it's a pretty serious thing.

so, i guess the question is, what's wrong with my logic that you find objectionable? (if i may just say... i am reading everything with an open mind. i respect all your statements.)

 

[kelly]

Orpheus
So... you'd be happy if the post was titled differently?

 

[Orpheus]

heh he... something like that. .....i'd be happy if he took out that quote.

but... do you understand at least what my argument is? am i way off?

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheus heh he... something like that. .....i'd be happy if he took out that quote. but... do you understand at least what my argument is? am i way off?

I do understand and I do still think you're a little off base. The purpose of the thread was clearly to do two things: post the sonic impressions of the cable AND to dissect it and take a look inside. The quote was related to the first point, not the second and I do think it's approriately used here. I could concede that the title doesn't reflect both purposes of the post, but I also think that's sort-of making a big deal out of nothing. Titles never completely explain the contents of a post.

 

[Orpheus]

yeah, that's what i thought you guys were saying. i understand. perhaps i am "off-base." .....but i don't think so. i'll post a more concrete argument when i think of one.

 

[jude]

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheus ....this dissection is entirely permissible as long as he makes no reference to VD's quote....

[/size]Oh, really? Thanks so much for laying the reviewing ground rules down for me.

Okay, Orpheus, let me make this very clear for you. In fact, here's a mini review just for you.

The cable cost $35.00. The company makes the following statement:[size=large]

Quote:

Power Series Basic Power This is an elegant yet hefty power cable. It uses standard 18-gauge conductor with a moulded IEC and a Hubbell receptacle. It is designed to replace typical stock cord and to compete with the value of the most popular $500 power cords from the traditional electronic design theories. Basic power is the first step into the virtual world and uses the technology of Dynamic Filtering.

[/size][size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheus ....what they are saying is that it sounds better. period. and "sounding" better is absolutely subjective. it "sounds" better than $500 cables... how can you argue with that?....

[/size][size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheus ....i am arguing that they only claimed the cable "sounded" better. am i clear?....

[/size]Now, where in there does it say "sound"? You had it in quotes. Where does it say that, though? Given that it doesn't specify this, one can evaluate its claimed value based on a reasonable interpretation of the manufacturer's statement.

Okay, now for the mini-review-just-for-you:

In reviewing, it is my goal to give an opinion of an audio product first (in terms of importance) on its sonic attributes as I hear them.

I had the Virtual Dynamics Basic Power in my rig for a while, plugged into my Max. Even after time allowed for break-in (it was already also used by MooGoesTheCow), I am of the opinion that it offered no sonic advantage, that I could hear, over a $10 Quail hospital grade cord. This, in and of itself, was disappointing for me. In light of the claims made by the manufacturer -- even if applied only to its sonic performance -- I found it even more disappointing.

Again, this is my opinion, based on my experience, in my rig, to my ears.

Given that *I* wasn't hearing $35 worth of performance in my rig, to my ears, in my opinion, I decided to see what was in it -- it's a power cable that is very heavy and stiff, and yet has 18-gauge conductors. I did that. In doing that, I admitted that I was not impressed with its construction, even for a $35 cable. I have a $10 hospital grade cable, even if machine-made, that I feel displays more uniform, more symmetrical and cleaner construction. Again, given the claims of the manufacturer, and the fact that it didn't perform -- in my opinion, to my ears, in my rig -- sonically nearly as well as I had expected, I also found that its construction also left me unimpressed.

Also, from a physical standpoint, in a brief search of sub-$500 audiophile power cables, and even sub-$100 ones I found specs for, all had conductors larger than 18-gauge. The Cardas Twinlink, with 16-AWG conductors, was the next smallest I found when looking this morning. But, Cardas' site states, regarding the Twinlink Power Cord: Quote:

Twinlink is a small (16 awg) power cord that is light weight and flexible. It is designed for front end components such as pre-amplifiers, CD players, turn tables, etc.

Based on wire gauge, the Virtual Dynamics Basic Power has ultimately less current-carrying capability than the TwinLink, and even less than my $10 Quail hospital grade cord. Some will find this relevant, some will not. So some will consider this in weighing its value relative to the manufacturer's claims, and some will not. In the audiophile world, it seems to me that there's at least some emphasis placed on a power cable's current-carrying ability. It is my opinion that some consumers might not realize what gauge/AWG ratings mean in terms of current-carrying ability, and might be looking more at the cable's total girth than the conductor size when conductor size can be a factor in some applications.[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheus ....others are also thinking you unjustly evaluating VD's claims. and this is dangerous, because you are devaluing a company's product... so such subject matters need to be very carefully approached. especially devaluing a company's credulity (? did i spell that right)... anyway... i think that borders on U.S. law... it's a pretty serious thing.

[/size]And he's a legal eagle, too! Okay, Johnnie Cochrane, here's the deal. I can freely state my opinions, and they're all clearly branded as my opinions. Now this might rub you the wrong way, but not all reviews of audio products will be positive. Regarding their value statement specifically (as quoted in big letters at the top of this post), read it again, and realize that there's some ambiguity in the statement of value, and so it's left to reasonable interpretation. F. Lee Bailey, my friend, you should have learned in law school that ambiguity is generally interpreted against the drafter -- that is, for example, if the drafter has a problem with the other party's interpretation, the question generally becomes whether or not, through any ambiguity of the statement, the other party made a reasonable interpretation of the statement. And given the statement, I'll say again that I've made a very reasonable interpretation of it.

Give it a rest.[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheus ....i'll post a more concrete argument when i think of one.

[/size]Uh, yeah, you do that.

 

[acidtripwow]

Virtual Dynamic Power 3 power cords are actually pretty good for the money. They're better than the Quail power cord. If you think Virtual Dynamics is a full of **** company then you should try their Nite series cables. I've had the Nite digital and it was an amazing cable that just let too much information come through. It was just a lot more transparent than I wanted. I needed a warm cable but if you're not into the warm sound then the Virtual Dynamic Nite series might be for you.

 

[jude]

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by acidtripwow ....If you think Virtual Dynamics is a full of **** company....

[/size]I'd like it on the record -- particularly for Judge Orpheus -- that I did not say this, or even hint at this, in any of my posts. acidtripwow appears to me to be simply laying down a qualifier in an attempt to address anyone -- if such individuals even exist -- who might think so.

 

[Orpheus]

i think you got me wrong Jude. "Now this might rub you the wrong way, but not all reviews of audio products will be positive." of course there will be negative opinions. isn't that what a review is? ...there's no need to get all emotional, dude. i'm just stating an argument.

i tell you what i think. you tell me what you think. that's what a debate is all about. i never said anything inflamatory about you. i don't think so anyway. if i have, i apologize. but i think this is getting out of hand. i only meant to let you know that you Might have said something you shouldn't. that's all.

so, um, i guess this Johnny Cochrane, aka Mr. Bailey, will just shut up k?... no one's paying me for this one. heck, i don't even agree with VD's design myself.

 

[eric343]

Man, this has gotten WAY WAY WAY out of hand.

 

[AC1]

Quote:

Originally posted by jude In reviewing, it is my goal to give an opinion of an audio product first (in terms of importance) on its sonic attributes as I hear them.

That's the way it should be, I can't believe that on an audio site there is criticism on giving information on the sonics of a product. It's just ridiculous to me that challenging their claim is so wrong in this thread. I want to know the sonics, I read this thread hoping there was some kind of mention on sonics... It's this nit picky scrutiny that makes it discouraging to want to realate any impressions about products.

 

[daycart1]

Look, when a company advertises that their $x product is meant to compete with $xx products, they are certainly inviting competition and comparison.

This is compatible with the comparison's being partial (e.g. for cables, sound only and not built quality, or looks only and not materials quality).

Jude DID compare the sound. Of course, others might have different subjective evaluations of the sound.

I think VD, being a good company and all, probably DOES mean for people to make the advertised comparison.

But if not, that would suck. And I'd strongly disagree with those who'd say that claims in ads or campaign promises or whatever can be made up just for fun.

 

[Dreamslacker]

Quote:

Originally posted by daycart1 Look, when a company advertises that their $x product is meant to compete with $xx products, they are certainly inviting competition and comparison. This is compatible with the comparison's being partial (e.g. for cables, sound only and not built quality, or looks only and not materials quality). Jude DID compare the sound. Of course, others might have different subjective evaluations of the sound. I think VD, being a good company and all, probably DOES mean for people to make the advertised comparison. But if not, that would suck. And I'd strongly disagree with those who'd say that claims in ads or campaign promises or whatever can be made up just for fun.

Actually, they seem to be playing on words there.

Quote:

It is designed to replace typical stock cord and to compete with the value of the most popular $500 power cords from the traditional electronic design theories.

This can be taken to mean:

1. The VD cord is capable of sound that is as good as $500 cables.
2. The cost-performance ratio of the VD competes with that of $500 cables.[/list=1]
   
   You do realise they could use the second meaning to their advantage if people are not satisfied with the product and the first meaning to advertise.
   
   Especially so when things like this suffer from diminishing returns. Getting a $500 cable may not give you a proportional difference as the price than the VD cord.
   
   It's just that the 2 dudes have interpreted the statement in different ways. Neither are wrong.

 

[wasifazim]

Any time a discussion degenerates into an argument over semantics, it's time to move on..we've all got enough information to formulate our own opinions of the Virtual Dynamics Basic Power (which is what this is about; it's not about the company or any of their other products) and as such this has been quite the public service announcement.

- Wasif.

 

[Phreon]

Yikes. Not since when I haunted forums where tirades about Leica glass flourished have I seen such nitpicking and venom!

First, I will assert that I am not an electrical engineer, but I have gained some experience over the years tinkering and futzing with amateur radios and other projects.

I just can't see how anyone could justify a $500 power cable for their stereo. First, to my twisted mind, even if you were to connect your amp to your house's circuitry with a superconducter, you still wouldn't be able to pull any more power than what the cheap ol' Romex in your walls can handle; you'd have to run the cable all the way back to the nearest transformer. Second, if you have to worry about the filtering capabilities of your power cable, what does that say about the quality of your amplifier's power supply?

I'm fully aware that the quality of the power cable can make a big difference in the quality of the sound during brief transients in the music when the amp is demanding high current, but talk about the air, warmth and soundstage of a 120v feed baffles me.

Shouldn't a good quality, heavy gauge, RFI shielded cable capable of dealing with high currents be more than enough?

I'm not critizing anyone, but I just can't see the benefit in a $900 power cable. For the price, wouldn't a better DAC or adding acoustic tiles to your room have a greater effect?

Phreon