[Townyj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not kidding at all. He gouged the community by selling them at a mark up, which even Grado disapproves of. People have been banned for a lot less than that.

Who did he hurt..? Please tell me... He sold them to someone who was willing to pay fairly good amount for them. If i had a pair and didnt like them and someone said name a price, i would definitely try and get a nice price. I have sold item's here for lower then average. So why not be able to get something back once n awhile. Who care's what "Grado" approves... In the end it was his item! This arguement is pointless. The so called "damage" is done. Enough already, stop trying to crucify someone.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Townyj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Who did he hurt..? Please tell me... He sold them to someone who was willing to pay fairly good amount for them. If i had a pair and didnt like them and someone said name a price, i would definitely try and get a nice price. I have sold item's here for lower then average. So why not be able to get something back once n awhile. Who care's what "Grado" approves... In the end it was his item! This arguement is pointless. The so called "damage" is done. Enough already.

It was his item, and this is someone else's forum. You keep ignoring the second part. He can do whatever he wants with his item, no one is saying otherwise. But the owners of the forum can also do whatever they want with their forum. In my opinion, what they should do is ban people who are found to be gouging the community with HF-2 mark ups. It goes against the spirit of the product, the forum, and the community. People have been banned for much less than that.

 

[aristos_achaion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not kidding at all. He gouged the community by selling them at a mark up, which even Grado disapproves of. People have been banned for a lot less than that.

Why's that gouging the community? If demand exceeds supply (it has), and people are willing to pay more for limited supply (they are), it seems perfectly reasonable that the price should rise until stopped by the next reasonable price cap. Now, if someone were trying to trick people into paying, say, more than a PS1000 for these things, I'd agree wholeheartedly. Or if someone were fallaciously posting rave reviews to jack up the price. But they appear to be a good set of headphones of which there's next to no supply and a ton of demand.

 

[woof37]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif Some members don't exactly live on head-fi, and perhaps weren't here for a while. So I find your statement to be logically faulty. No one said it wasn't beyond their control. If you read more carefully, you might have noticed that I said anyone who was found gouging the community should be banned from the community, not that they didn't have the right to try to gouge the community.

The ordering was open/available somewhere in mid-May to the end of the month. TTVJ took orders up until about the 19th of July. That's about two months. LE release products to an enthusiast community rarely last two weeks, much less two months. I would say that, logically faulty or not, two months is plenty of time to read Head-Fi, place your order, and avoid "gouging" on the secondary market.

They shouldn't be banned from the community, Userlander. They're not dumping them on purpose to make a profit...it'd be one thing if somebody bought a bunch of them up under different forum IDs with the intent of resale. Don't the HF-1s go for a good bit over their Head-Fi price nowadays?

 

[Townyj]

Exactly! He wasnt ripping anyone off at the time. The guy was willing to pay the amount, so he wasnt gouging anyone including the "community"

Quote:

Originally Posted by aristos_achaion /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why's that gouging the community? If demand exceeds supply (it has), and people are willing to pay more for limited supply (they are), it seems perfectly reasonable that the price should rise until stopped by the next reasonable price cap. Now, if someone were trying to trick people into paying, say, more than a PS1000 for these things, I'd agree wholeheartedly. Or if someone were fallaciously posting rave reviews to jack up the price. But they appear to be a good set of headphones of which there's next to no supply and a ton of demand.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by woof37 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The ordering was open/available somewhere in mid-May to the end of the month. TTVJ took orders up until about the 19th of July. That's about two months. LE release products to an enthusiast community rarely last two weeks, much less two months. I would say that, logically faulty or not, two months is plenty of time to read Head-Fi, place your order, and avoid "gouging" on the secondary market. They shouldn't be banned from the community, Userlander. They're not dumping them on purpose to make a profit...it'd be one thing if somebody bought a bunch of them up under different forum IDs with the intent of resale. Don't the HF-1s go for a good bit over their Head-Fi price nowadays?

I think the HF-1s are actually falling in price. But regardless, I don't think you know for a fact that no one bought these solely with the intention of turning around and selling them at some point at a profit. A couple people have all but said as much. Which is perfectly within their rights, of course. All I'm saying is that they should be banned from the community for doing so. They have violated the whole spirit of the offer just to make a profit. That hurts the community, it doesn't help it.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Townyj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Exactly! He wasnt ripping anyone off at the time. The guy was willing to pay the amount, so he wasnt gouging anyone including the "community"

Sure he was. He was ripping off the member who wanted to buy them at the actual price but got here too late (and I've seen a couple of posts to that effect), and who now either has to pay a stiff premium, or perhaps can't afford the mark-up at all. So you're wrong again. He has hurt the community for which they were intended and offered at a specific price.

Again, Todd could have probably charged double for these phone and still sold out. That doesn't mean he had to. The point of the headphones wasn't about making a huge profit. So in your "dog eat dog" "capitalist" mode you're missing the entire point. Not everything is about "capitalism," you know. Some people have deeper values and sensibilities than that.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please move this discussion to a more appropriate thread. This is for reviews, not discussions on the merits of capitalism.

Hey, he's the one who brought up all this "supply and demand" cr@p. I was just trying to defend the integrity of the community. Which is ironic in itself since I don't own the headphones and have no intention of buying them. If folks want to pay a premium to some greedy people and get gouged that's their business. Todd could have sold them for more, but he didn't. It's just a shame people can't see the difference between that approach and the approach of these gougers.

 

[AudioDwebe]

Friends shouldn't "hose" friends. Community, right?

 

[keyid]

yea ban everyone who sells item above retail prices and also ban people who take too much of a loss when selling their products cause as a community we should not be ripping people off.

 

[Bullseye]

People will sell their equipment for the price people are willing to pay. If it is a limited edition expect some people willing to pay more money whilst other no. No one makes anyone buy a product, and no ones determines what price you put to your own things, regardless what you payed for.

If someone wants to give for free this headphones would you tell him: "wait, don't do that, think of the people who payed money for it" No you wouldn't, you would try to be the lucky one to get it. And if someone wants to sell this headphones for $2000? Well I definitely wouldn't buy it, but maybe someone is willing to spend that money.

Anyways, lets keep the thread focused on reviews and impressions.

 

[userlander]

Wow, this topic really struck a nerve, I see. I wonder where all of you were when people like "bushguy" were getting on my case because he had made up in his mind that I wanted to buy the HF-2 headphones just to resell them for a profit, or when I was being harassed in post after post just because I had wondered if having some say F1 would affect their resale value? Where were you all then to say, "get off his back, he can sell them for anything he wants, they're his item?" No, instead I got all kinds of lectures about how J.Grado had been really upset the first time with the gouging, and these insinuations from bushguy, et al about what a lousy person I apparently was for wanting to sell them at a profit (when in fact he was just making that up out of thin air to begin with). Just really weird.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif People will sell their equipment for the price people are willing to pay. If it is a limited edition expect some people willing to pay more money whilst other no. No one makes anyone buy a product, and no ones determines what price you put to your own things, regardless what you payed for. If someone wants to give for free this headphones would you tell him: "wait, don't do that, think of the people who payed money for it" No you wouldn't, you would try to be the lucky one to get it. And if someone wants to sell this headphones for $2000? Well I definitely wouldn't buy it, but maybe someone is willing to spend that money.

I'll be glad to leave it alone just as soon as people stop so completely misrepresenting what I said. To clarify it one more time, I never said -- and never WOULD say -- that a person doesn't have the right to try to sell their equipment for any amount they want. That is not the issue, and that is not what I said -- not even close. So please just stop with these false arguments about people not being able to charge what they want for something. I never said anything of the kind. They can ask whatever they want for their equipment, thx.

 

[Bullseye]

@ userlander: What i wrote wasn't directed towards you, it was a general comment that came from me.

As the one who started this thread and spends time reading people's comments in order to update the first post it gets boring to read more comments about what is right or wrong, instead of keeping this thread focused on reviews and comparisons. Some of the arguing I just skip it, and I hope people will do the same.

I am still interested in reading impressions about salad bowls on the HF-2. I don't want to buy some expensive salad bowls before I read what others think about them.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif @ userlander: What i wrote wasn't directed towards you, it was a general comment that came from me. As the one who started this thread and spends time reading people's comments in order to update the first post it gets boring to read more comments about what is right or wrong, instead of keeping this thread focused on reviews and comparisons. Some of the arguing I just skip it, and I hope people will do the same.

Fair enough. But please everyone go back and read where the resale discussion even started. Many posts before I chimed in, thx.

 

[omegaman]

In my opinion it was a fair trade, The buyer was happy and the seller was happy. So whats the issue ?

The buyer put in his ad " Name your price ", M3NTAL named it and the buyer accepted.
M3NTAL also posted the selling price, just to put everyone in the picture when he could have left in in a PM and nobody would have known the difference.