[Sparky191]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pata2001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Today, you can argue that nobody "innovates" anymore, since a lot of today's technology and gadget are derivatives. MS is pretty much a giant, and although they might not "innovate," they do respond to the trend and market, albeit slowly. Compare that to Sony who still has no clue.

Well we agree, MS don't innovate. MS isn't a giant in portable audio. Its nowhere. Maybe in the US it has some presence but anywhere else? Sony is everywhere and is making some of the best portable audio you can get at the moment. I can walk into a shop less than 100ft away and buy a excellent Sony player. I'd say thats pretty typical in any city worldwide. I don't think theres anywhere in this city that sells MS players. (I'm not in the US).
So Sony must be doing something right. Hardly clueless.

 

[Sparky191]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nagasaki_Kid /img/forum/go_quote.gif The main reason sony failed was because it wanted to protect it's music division from piracy(hence drm and soundstage), but you can't blame them for something that'll effect their bottom line. Otherwise I believed minidisc would have been much more popular.

+1 Even with their recent MP3 and PCDP's. Once they dropped ATRAC and DRM the market picked up for them. Though their designs improved at the same time, which was probably more important to their resurgence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young Spade /img/forum/go_quote.gif iPods are everywhere. Everyone has them and everyone wants them. IMO the only thing that they do right is A) Form factor and B) Use of software to manage media for me (a lot of people don't like this though).

I don't really like it either. But a lot of people do.

 

[Sparky191]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spideyman409 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....I had a SE phone and there were many days that it was more convenient to just listen to music off of it, than to grab my ipod update/refresh it through itunes (gayness).

Except you need to carry a proprietary head phone cable. Or data cable if you PC doesn't have a Sony Memory stick format reader. Proprietary anything, be it cables or software is a royal pain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spideyman409 /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's no doubt MP3 players are new to some people, especially the older generation, but I think as they die off and the younger crowd realizes the cuffs that itunes/ipods have, the other brands of mp3 players (Cowon, IRiver, etc) will begin to take off. We'll then see the marketshare more balanced.

The cuffs have been there from day one/many years. Diddo players without them. While it seems to have hurt Sony, it doesn't seem to hurt Apple. Perhaps its how its done, rather than if its done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spideyman409 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It still amazes me why people would buy a shuffle that has more than 1gb on it. Not having a screen and having over 1000+ songs seems very pointless to me. =/

If you look at other peoples iPods/Mp3 players. I notice that a lot of people don't have their music organized. Its just thrown on the player and left on shuffle constantly. Even with large HD players. So I'm not surprised tbh.

That aside. You can actually navigate a Shuffle easily. leaving it on shuffle and skipping through tracks until you find the album you want. Then turn off shuffle and go back to the track you want. Some players have a album previous/next buttons which makes this easier again. As you say though as the capacity increases this becomes a pain. I wouldn't buy a new shuffle myself, as I'd need a screen on something with a lot of tracks.

 

[pata2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky191 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well we agree, MS don't innovate. MS isn't a giant in portable audio. Its nowhere. Maybe in the US it has some presence but anywhere else? Sony is everywhere and is making some of the best portable audio you can get at the moment. I can walk into a shop less than 100ft away and buy a excellent Sony player. I'd say thats pretty typical in any city worldwide. I don't think theres anywhere in this city that sells MS players. (I'm not in the US). So Sony must be doing something right. Hardly clueless.

Well, you're assuming that the market wants standalone devices and stays that way, which is how Sony is approaching the market. The trend, however, is moving towards integration towards smartphones, just like PDAs. Sure, standalone DAPs are still widely available today, and Sony has their own share, but that is not what Sony should be concerned about. They should be concerned about the trend and future platform. MS has Windows Mobile. Apple has the iPhone OS. Nokia has S60. Sony? UIQ is gone, and even the Xperia uses Windows Mobile.
I'm not saying that tomorrow everybody will suddenly drop their MP3 players and use smartphones, but one can clearly see the trend moving that way, and in this sense, Sony is pretty much clueless. Just playing catch up on yesterday's trend won't do any good.

As for the ease of finding a Sony player all over the world, that might be true for their low end players, but then that market is already flooded with the likes of Samsung and Sandisk.

 

[Sparky191]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pata2001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, you're assuming that the market wants standalone devices and stays that way, which is how Sony is approaching the market. The trend, however, is moving towards integration towards smartphones, just like PDAs. Sure, standalone DAPs are still widely available today, and Sony has their own share, but that is not what Sony should be concerned about. They should be concerned about the trend and future platform. MS has Windows Mobile. Apple has the iPhone OS. Nokia has S60. Sony? UIQ is gone, and even the Xperia uses Windows Mobile. I'm not saying that tomorrow everybody will suddenly drop their MP3 players and use smartphones, but one can clearly see the trend moving that way, and in this sense, Sony is pretty much clueless. Just playing catch up on yesterday's trend won't do any good. As for the ease of finding a Sony player all over the world, that might be true for their low end players, but then that market is already flooded with the likes of Samsung and Sandisk.

The topic was about the portable market past and present. You're talking about convergence in the future, and specifically high end phones not portables of all types. While I agree in general with your crystal ball speculation, it hasn't happened yet. DAP's still are a huge seller.

Quote:

Apple sold 3.79 million iPhones during the quarter, and 11.01 million iPods

Quote:

Apple reported shipping 3.79 million iPhones during the quarter, meaning it also sold a comparable 3.21 million iPod touches

Also the biggest selling sector is low cost phones and that trend has increased with the downturn. Those phones do not need a complex smartphone OS, and in that sector an OS like UIQ is vastly superior to Windows Mobile. Which is a clunky dinosaur. The Xperia is a flag carrier for the brand, but I doubt its a bigger seller compared to their low end models. UIQ is a little clunky now, but then what isn't compared to Apples OS.

 

[spideyman409]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pata2001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe you should learn how to read from the originating thread first to learn how the flow of the discussion went, instead of jumping in and spouting nonsense mid-thread and flaming others.

FYI, I did read the thread from the beginning and my "rant" was in reference to you saying Sony doesn't innovate and has "no clue."

Your point about Sony not having a UIQ is somewhat valid, I agree, but you could say the same thing about MS not having the hardware. HTC/samsung makes most of the WM phones. I think all the companies have their own part to play in the market, but to say Sony has "no clue" is pretty ignorant. SE makes some pretty good smartphones (although way overpriced, which was always sony's problem).

Also, there will always be a group of people like us that just want a dedicated music player that does that damn well instead of a Jack of all trades that does nothing well. If Sony wants to be that Ace in the music player industry, let them b/c there will always be people like me and some of the other head-fi'ers that will buy it.

 

[pata2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spideyman409 /img/forum/go_quote.gif FYI, I did read the thread from the beginning and my "rant" was in reference to you saying Sony doesn't innovate and has "no clue." Your point about Sony not having a UIQ is somewhat valid, I agree, but you could say the same thing about MS not having the hardware. HTC/samsung makes most of the WM phones. I think all the companies have their own part to play in the market, but to say Sony has "no clue" is pretty ignorant. SE makes some pretty good smartphones (although way overpriced, which was always sony's problem). Also, there will always be a group of people like us that just want a dedicated music player that does that damn well instead of a Jack of all trades that does nothing well. If Sony wants to be that Ace in the music player industry, let them b/c there will always be people like me and some of the other head-fi'ers that will buy it.

No you didn't. Care to point out where I said Sony doesn't innovate? Clearly you're missing the flow of the conversation. On the other hand, you're the one saying I'm an MS fanboy and went on and on ranting in OT.

Sony is clueless. Look at how the company is doing. They lost their dominant place in the portable audio market. SE is not doing so hot either. Obviously whatever they're doing is not really working. Your way of thinking that a company should only serve the niche market like yourself is the ignorant statement, unless you really want to see Sony going down.

 

[gameboy115]

It is rape, not steal....lol

everytime I jump on bus, ppls around me are all carrying ipod, ipod touch or ipodtouch......sony is like never exist in planet

 

[stevenjchang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aragornmustdie /img/forum/go_quote.gif i am curious in whether sony is the king of portable players in japan or not, considering their grip in their home country. anyone knows any info regarding this?

i went to college with many japanese people. when ipods came out, up until around the time of 4th gens, sony's were still completey dominant in japan (sony, panasonic, aiwa)... not because they were the best, but because japanese people are very loyal to brands.

IMO that was actually their downfall, that they didnt lose much marketshare in japan during that time, and they arrogantly though they were maintaining their superiority (plus, by the time of 4th gen ipods, most japanese were still buying cd's or md's, at $35 a pop mind you) so the sony walkmans were still the most common thing. (if you went to japan pre2004/5 you'll know what i'm saying, they didnt even sell almost any mp3 players in stores)


if sony had began compete with apple, toe to toe, starting when ipod 3rd gens came out, i think they would have shared the monopoly equally with apple, sony back then still had the "classy walkman" appeal. but it was impossible cuz they made such pieces of shyt like the HD1, HD3... which didnt play mp3s, and small led screen w/ green backlight (SO FREAKEN ASIAN)

ONE THING I NEVER EVER UNDERSTOOD,
before the ipod, ALL ASIAN electronics, walkmans, cd players, had a wired remote control on the earbuds.
WHY DOES NO MP3 player (cept sony/iriver?) have this? OH WHY WHY WHY???

 

[shigzeo]

i was studying in japan in 2004/05 and found the ipod to already be quite strong: stronger in tokyo than in canada at least. now, it is ahead for sure, but there are still loyal sony users out there. however, sony will have to put down a strong foot to really be accepted again in the audio community.

 

[maporter]

73.8 per cent - The share of the American MP3 player market currently held by Apple. Microsoft currently holds just 1.1 per cent. Apple has now sold 20 million iPod Touches and 30 million iPhones.

I'd say that that's pretty conclusive....

But lets not forget the device that kicked off the whole portable musical scene way back in 1978 - The Sony Walkman TPS-12 (cassette), at the time critics failed to realise how revolutionary this was and said it would never sell - Within a decade Sony had shifted 50 million units, created a cultural icon and paved the way for the iPod

(Information taken from the UK's December issue of T3 magazine).

 

[Jack Mono]

iPod could kill SONY if they could make a player with good SQ. All they had to do is reverse engineer a SONY player. "Good artists steal" - Steve Jobs. As of now, SONY makes way better DAPs for those who care about SQ. Not too many I know - and that is why Aplle doesn't care. Also the interface is better in the hard button department (save me from the click wheel please). Unfortunately making good sounding devices is not a good mass market approach. And sure I would drop my DAP if my phone could compete. SONY has their game console, it has Ericsson (no1 in mobile tech. Not in the handheld market, but the other end, towers etc) and has Walkman. Unfortunately they don't have the app store. I good browser may be could be ordered out of house, but the app store rocks! So, I don't know, I am curious to see if apple can make a DAP with good SQ. I am all in, but until then SONY for music all the way. Have you ever seen an Apple DVD or CD player, amp, home theater etc? They have no clue about SQ... SONY isn't such a small player on the market after all... (MS makes a music player now? What?

)

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Mono /img/forum/go_quote.gif iPod could kill SONY if they could make a player with good SQ. All they had to do is reverse engineer a SONY player. "Good artists steal" - Steve Jobs. As of now, SONY makes way better DAPs for those who care about SQ. Not too many I know - and that is why Aplle doesn't care. Also the interface is better in the hard button department (save me from the click wheel please). Unfortunately making good sounding devices is not a good mass market approach. And sure I would drop my DAP if my phone could compete. SONY has their game console, it has Ericsson (no1 in mobile tech. Not in the handheld market, but the other end, towers etc) and has Walkman. Unfortunately they don't have the app store. I good browser may be could be ordered out of house, but the app store rocks! So, I don't know, I am curious to see if apple can make a DAP with good SQ. I am all in, but until then SONY for music all the way. Have you ever seen an Apple DVD or CD player, amp, home theater etc? They have no clue about SQ... SONY isn't such a small player on the market after all... (MS makes a music player now? What? )

Apple will change if and only if Sony's marketshare threatens them. Otherwise, Apple will stick with the same formula.

I don't think iPods sound that bad, either. Dumping on iPods in the portable forums is good sport and it's always fun to throw a punch at the biggest target.

But I use a plain 'ol iPod with AAC files. Portable gear is mostly ephemeral. Buy it one day and two weeks later something better comes along. Why bother investing cash into a product with a short lifespan and gets replaced every 12-18 months?

And the iPod is certainly good enough. Yeah, the MSRP on my vinyl rig is somewhere over $12k. But an iPod with lossy files is good enough. All things portable are conveniences to be used and thrown into a briefcase. "Good enough" is all you really need.

 

[Jack Mono]

I must disagree. This is a very good thread and I won't get into the usual theme: "iPod sucks, SONY rocks", but I have to say, "good enough" is a loose term. SONY is "good enough" for me, iPods (the ones I have heard) are not. I am sure they could be colored nicely with a good built in amp, so I have no clue why they don't do that, it is simply beyond me as they would have my business for sure and I'd be $400 shorter for a 64GB Touch.

And certainly SONY isn't neighbor of God himself. I bought a SONY PSP and it mostly sucked big time, horrible interface and browser. It played games quite nicely though, however (listen to this) I played more and had more fun on my iPod with its games.

As for the OP, I don't know. I remember that in the MD war I choose SHARP over SONY (a blind choice), but these two were the main players. Then came the SSD player era and SONY simply disappeared. I choose iRiver over iPod because iPod sounded just ridiculously, just like a Soviet radio. I couldn't believe that anyone would actually buy that thing after listening to it... Giving it to them, the Touch came a long way, but SONY is back and they make better DAPs. How much a vinyl player costs... well it is almost 2010, I couldn't care less, I don't run a museum.

 

[grawk]

thing is, sony isn't better than apple in sq. Sony is doing dsp magic to make it sound "better" and less accurate to what is there. If you're not listening critically, maybe it's more fun, but it's certainly not better.

Sony hasn't been the company to emulate in over a decade. Not in quality, not in design, not in anything really.