[Oregonian]

They don't sound similar, in any way. The TH-600s and 900s are much more clear and uncolored.

TH600's uncolored? I'm not sure what the definition of that is - could you explain what you mean?

I just got a pair of TH600's and though the box says reference headphones they are far from neutral. Lovely, Bassy and sound great. And my D7000's were their equal in every way.

 

[Magick Man]

I don't know man looking at the graphs its a little difference. So I would have to spend another 1 grand getting the TH-900 because they are slightly less colored and clear..... This makes absolute perfect sense. Forgive me if I sound a bit arrogant.

No, it's MUCH less colored and MUCH clearer, the one FR graph doesn't tell the whole story (though it shows a great deal more mib-bass bloat from the D7100s as well, by 10dB). The D7100s are making as much as 5-7 times more distortion in areas than the TH-600s (which cost the same as the Denons), and you can immediately tell it when listening to them. Compound that with the terrible impulse response of the Denons, twice as slow as the TH-600s, and you end up with a muddy, sloppy mess, in comparison.

 

[Magick Man]

TH600's uncolored? I'm not sure what the definition of that is - could you explain what you mean?

I just got a pair of TH600's and though the box says reference headphones they are far from neutral. Lovely, Bassy and sound great. And my D7000's were their equal in every way.

Exactly, if they make the TH-600s sound less colored, and they do, you can imagine how distorted the D7100s are.

 

[elwappo99]

Quote:

No, it's MUCH less colored and MUCH clearer, the one FR graph doesn't tell the whole story (though it shows a great deal more mib-bass bloat from the D7100s as well, by 10dB). The D7100s are making as much as 5-7 times more distortion in areas than the TH-600s (which cost the same as the Denons), and you can immediately tell it when listening to them. Compound that with the terrible impulse response of the Denons, twice as slow as the TH-600s, and you end up with a muddy, sloppy mess, in comparison.

 
Unfortunately, most people that use graphs will only look at FR, which only shows a small portion of the headphone. The D7100's FR shows a colored headphone, bass tilted, with a very odd treble balance. 

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

1. I think you meant GS-X MKII (from your inventory)
2. Are you saying Burson Soloist is better than Liquid Fire ? How about Liquid Glass ? (That should save me lot of money)  ^ ^...
3. How about Liquid Glass vs GS-X MKII ? I am looking for a new headphone amp.
 
Thanks in advance Macedonian,.

Yeah, to clarify, I wish I had picked up a Soloist INSTEAD of the Liquid Fire and saved about $1200.
 
No interest in the Liquid Glass. 

 

[bgtrance]

No, it's MUCH less colored and MUCH clearer, the one FR graph doesn't tell the whole story (though it shows a great deal more mib-bass bloat from the D7100s as well, by 10dB). The D7100s are making as much as 5-7 times more distortion in areas than the TH-600s (which cost the same as the Denons), and you can immediately tell it when listening to them. Compound that with the terrible impulse response of the Denons, twice as slow as the TH-600s, and you end up with a muddy, sloppy mess, in comparison.

 
Wait a minute here, lets talk about colored vs uncolored here. What exactly are you trying to prove by bringing this comparison? As far as I know, there can't be a "uncolored" headphone thats just very hard to do and if there was one it would be perfection. Secondly, what is wrong with colored headphones? Plus I am pretty sure, according to my understanding of colored vs uncolored, that most of the people on this forum actually prefer colored headphones. The very small percentage of people with 10k+ setups are the ones that go for the flat/neutral headsets.

 

[Magick Man]

Wait a minute here, lets talk about colored vs uncolored here. What exactly are you trying to prove by bringing this comparison? As far as I know, there can't be a "uncolored" headphone thats just very hard to do and if there was one it would be perfection. Secondly, what is wrong with colored headphones? Plus I am pretty sure, according to my understanding of colored vs uncolored, that most of the people on this forum actually prefer colored headphones. The very small percentage of people with 10k+ setups are the ones that go for the flat/neutral headsets.

What am I "trying to prove"? I'm saying the D7100 is colored and distorted beyond what a set of headphones at its price point should be. These are $300 cans selling for $800-1000, it's as simple as that. The TH-600s are in the same price class but offer far superior clarity and dynamics.

 

[bgtrance]

Quote:

What am I "trying to prove"? I'm saying the D7100 is colored and distorted beyond what a set of headphones at its price point should be. These are $300 cans selling for $800-1000, it's as simple as that. The TH-600s are in the same price class but offer far superior clarity and dynamics.

So far you are not proving anything "effectively" and you still didn't answer my question on colored vs uncolored.....  And you keep repeating the same thing in every one of your posts.  Sorry to put it so bluntly.
 
As to your question about you trying to prove something.  Well lets see, you are on this thread trying to prove to me that the D7100s are "worst headphone to date" by showing me frequency charts and comparing them to other high end headphones. 

 

[elwappo99]

Quote:

So far you are not proving anything "effectively" and you still didn't answer my question on colored vs uncolored.....  And you keep repeating the same thing in every one of your posts.  Sorry to put it so bluntly.
 
As to your question about you trying to prove something.  Well lets see, you are on this thread trying to prove to me that the D7100s are "worst headphone to date" by showing me frequency charts and comparing them to other high end headphones. 

 
What headphones have you tested the D7100 against? Have you compared them to the TH600?
 
Also, how are you driving the D7100?

 

[Magick Man]

So far you are not proving anything "effectively" and you still didn't answer my question on colored vs uncolored.....  And you keep repeating the same thing in every one of your posts.  Sorry to put it so bluntly.

As to your question about you trying to prove something.  Well lets see, you are on this thread trying to prove to me that the D7100s are "worst headphone to date" by showing me frequency charts and comparing them to other high end headphones. 

No, I'm saying their excessive distortion and coloration makes their price ridiculous. They should be a few $100 not a thousand. Get some new Beats Studios if you want "boom-boom" cans with heavy coloration, and save a ton of money. The D7100s are a poor value.

 

[bgtrance]

Quote:

 
What headphones have you tested the D7100 against? Have you compared them to the TH600?
 
Also, how are you driving the D7100?

My setup is in my sig.... I have compared them against the HD800, the Signature Pro, and the ED8.

 

[bgtrance]

Quote:

No, I'm saying their excessive distortion and coloration makes their price ridiculous. They should be a few $100 not a thousand. Get some new Beats Studios if you want "boom-boom" cans with heavy coloration, and save a ton of money. The D7100s are a poor value.

Lets see here, I'll take you up on your own "game" 
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MonsterBeatsPro.pdf
 
Those are the frequency graphs for the Beats Pro.  I don't know what is the top of the line from the Monster brand so I assumed its that.  By your logic, the D7100s eat them sonic wise so I really have a hard time understanding your point.... In regards to the price, it has come down and most vendors (Headroom for example) started offering them sub 1k.  I believe HeadRoom was offering the D7100 at 899 which is 100 bucks cheaper than the TH-600.  
 
In regards to your last statement about the "boom boom".  If I didn't want bass, I would go with a more analytical headphone such as the HD800 or even HE5/6.   If you read my previous comments you would know that.  I want bass, but I also want my fair share of detail so that is why I went with this headphone and paired up with my WA7 it brings nothing but joy when I listen to them.  I am open to suggestions in trying headphones that would fit my genre of music (house, trance/progressive) so if you have a better choice then by all means suggest it.  But don't say that the headphones have excessive distortion or coloration because I am certainly not experiencing any of that.  And I am driving them with a pretty good AMP/DAC combo....
 
Come to think of it, none of the people on this thread would even suggest these headphones sounded like Beats headphones if they didn't have a slight resemblance.  Funny how the human mind works...

 

[sebna]

It is tough job ahead of you. He is like a little child. No matter what you say his post has to be the last one and on top repeating over and over again same subjective opinions like a broken record and like it would be a truth of all truths.
 
One would think that if this is his opinion he would state it once, not 100 times as it looks a bit unhealthy, but maybe it is just me.
 
If you would read the thread you would notice same posts repeating every few other posts... does not matter that everybody read them 100+ already they will keep going. Quite funny after a while and bit sad as well.

 

[elwappo99]

Quote:

Lets see here, I'll take you up on your own "game" 
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MonsterBeatsPro.pdf
 
Those are the frequency graphs for the Beats Pro.  I don't know what is the top of the line from the Monster brand so I assumed its that.  By your logic, the D7100s eat them sonic wise so I really have a hard time understanding your point.... In regards to the price, it has come down and most vendors (Headroom for example) started offering them sub 1k.  I believe HeadRoom was offering the D7100 at 899 which is 100 bucks cheaper than the TH-600.  
 

 
You'll notice that headroom doesn't actually these headphones. I would suspect something along these lines is the reason:
http://www.headphone.com/headphones/denon-ah-d7100.php
 
 
I think Magick's point is that the D7100's capabilities as a headphone can be found in headphones at the $200-$300 price range. 
 
Also, you keep referencing the FR graph, but you don't mention any of the other measurements of the headphone. The FR doesn't really paint a complete picture of a headphone, and moreover the other graphs show quite a bit more. 

 

[Magick Man]

Lets see here, I'll take you up on your own "game" 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MonsterBeatsPro.pdf

Those are the frequency graphs for the Beats Pro.  I don't know what is the top of the line from the Monster brand so I assumed its that.  By your logic, the D7100s eat them sonic wise so I really have a hard time understanding your point....

The Beats Pros measure much better than the D7100s, according to that graph. Look at the lower THD numbers. What's your point? :rolleyes:

In regards to the price, it has come down and most vendors (Headroom for example) started offering them sub 1k.  I believe HeadRoom was offering the D7100 at 899 which is 100 bucks cheaper than the TH-600.  

The TH-600s are $850 through PriceJapan.com

http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1167&category=10

In regards to your last statement about the "boom boom".  If I didn't want bass, I would go with a more analytical headphone such as the HD800 or even HE5/6.   If you read my previous comments you would know that.  I want bass, but I also want my fair share of detail so that is why I went with this headphone and paired up with my WA7 it brings nothing but joy when I listen to them.  I am open to suggestions in trying headphones that would fit my genre of music (house, trance/progressive) so if you have a better choice then by all means suggest it.  But don't say that the headphones have excessive distortion or coloration because I am certainly not experiencing any of that.  And I am driving them with a pretty good AMP/DAC combo....

Come to think of it, none of the people on this thread would even suggest these headphones sounded like Beats headphones if they didn't have a slight resemblance.  Funny how the human mind works...

There are $300 headphones that blow the D7100s away, even the lesser priced D600s sound better, they aren't worth the money. Sorry.