[Terriero]

That's particularly true, especially if you're framing a comparison with some of the pricier closed-back options in the market. IMO, despite being cheaper than the likes of the LIRIC, the Vérité Closed, the Stellia, and the Stealth, it isn't handily trounced by any of them in the overall sense. Sure, the Denon doesn't have the last word in terms of technicalities, but as a total package, the AH-D9200 punches way above its price tier.

The company needs to iterate, though, if it wants to stay relevant within the new few years. The successor to the AH-D9200 - whatever it'll be - needs to address a few key areas.

Let your/our wallets rest a little ... I'm glad my friend @albertmuc is enjoying his new Sony Z1Rs with a manufacture date of 12/2021... So they are still being manufactured... But when a new year begins, Malevolent is always wanting more and more headphones

 

[Malevolent]

Let your/our wallets rest a little ... I'm glad my friend @albertmuc is enjoying his new Sony Z1Rs with a manufacture date of 12/2021... So they are still being manufactured... But when a new year begins, Malevolent is always wanting more and more headphones

Ha! It's a new year, alright.

And once again, my mind goes back to the headphones that I didn't / couldn't buy. Argh!

 

[Shooter41]

After literally months of waiting and checking the website every day, Denon.com finally has the AH-D9200's back in stock. Just ordered them and paid for express shipping. I wanted to buy them direct as Denon.com offers a 60-day trial so if I don't end up preferring them to my beloved Clear Mg's I can just return them with no issue. Of course, this comes at a really inconvenient time. I just bought 2 very nice watches (sales I couldn't pass up), a Bricasti M5 streamer/end point, an EtherRegen network switch, AND had to replace my 11 year-old 27" iMac. I just knew this was gonna happen, but I've been waiting too long to miss out. I had actually almost decided to skip the Denons and go ahead and try some Empyreans, but I know I'll always wonder if I don't give these a shot.

 

[WDitters]

There's a scenario that you did not mention.. Which is keeping both the Focal and the Denon.. This is what happened to me as they each have their own very enjoyable character and do not exactly overlap ...

If I were to be put a gun to my head though, I think the Focal Clear MG and Arya would have to go. That's how much the Denon AH-D9200 have grown on me

 

[Shooter41]

There's a scenario that you did not mention.. Which is keeping both the Focal and the Denon.. This is what happened to me as they each have their own very enjoyable character and do not exactly overlap ...

I have entertained the idea of having a couple (or more) pairs of phones at the same time, but the reality is that it just doesn't work for me. I listen to almost every kind of music and can switch directly from Tool to Prokofiev to John Mayer to the Carpenters (Karen Carpenter was easily one of the best female voices to ever exist and I'll fight anyone that says otherwise ). Having to switch headphones to ones that suit a particular genre would be a huge hassle and would take a lot of the fun out of listening for me. I decided a while back to just find the best all-around headphones I can and stick with them. Right now, that's the Clear Mg's. If I don't end up switching to these Denons I'll try the Empyreans at some point but I'm honestly pretty happy with the Focals (I've also had OG Clear and Elear, plus LCD-2 and LCD-X '21 Audezes) so the 9200's have really got to bring it to get me to switch. I don't know of any other phones that I find tempting right now. I'd rather put the money I'd have in additional phones into my front end, hence the recent Bricasti M5 and EtherRegen purchases. Also already upgraded my DAC to a Yggdrasil "less-is-more" version while I've had the Mg's and man, do I ever love that thing. I will not be DAC shopping again for the foreseeable future.

 

[MatW]

I have entertained the idea of having a couple (or more) pairs of phones at the same time, but the reality is that it just doesn't work for me. I listen to almost every kind of music and can switch directly from Tool to Prokofiev to John Mayer to the Carpenters (Karen Carpenter was easily one of the best female voices to ever exist and I'll fight anyone that says otherwise ). Having to switch headphones to ones that suit a particular genre would be a huge hassle and would take a lot of the fun out of listening for me. I decided a while back to just find the best all-around headphones I can and stick with them. Right now, that's the Clear Mg's. If I don't end up switching to these Denons I'll try the Empyreans at some point but I'm honestly pretty happy with the Focals (I've also had OG Clear and Elear, plus LCD-2 and LCD-X '21 Audezes) so the 9200's have really got to bring it to get me to switch. I don't know of any other phones that I find tempting right now. I'd rather put the money I'd have in additional phones into my front end, hence the recent Bricasti M5 and EtherRegen purchases. Also already upgraded my DAC to a Yggdrasil "less-is-more" version while I've had the Mg's and man, do I ever love that thing. I will not be DAC shopping again for the foreseeable future.

Owning multiple headphones is not only for genre matching but simply for variety. But if you're a one headphone guy, chances are you'll end up with an open back, as they are simply better than closed backs for sound quality. I love the Denon but it has the drawbacks of a closed headphone, mainly soundstage. If you're interested in the Empyrean, I would suggest the Elite instead. I owned the Empyrean twice but found it lacking in the end, mainly in terms of technical performance. The Elite retains some of the warmth of the Empyrean, but it's a much much better headphone.

 

[WDitters]

Owning multiple headphones is not only for genre matching but simply for variety. But if you're a one headphone guy, chances are you'll end up with an open back, as they are simply better than closed backs for sound quality. I love the Denon but it has the drawbacks of a closed headphone, mainly soundstage. If you're interested in the Empyrean, I would suggest the Elite instead. I owned the Empyrean twice but found it lacking in the end, mainly in terms of technical performance. The Elite retains some of the warmth of the Empyrean, but it's a much much better headphone.

It's actually the opposite with me. I find myself reaching for the Denon much more often than for any other headphones... They really do it for me as my pair of Generalist cans...

 

[SRKRAM]

It's actually the opposite with me. I find myself reaching for the Denon much more often than for any other headphones... They really do it for me as my pair of Generalist cans...

Interesting to see that other have the Clear MGs. I tried them a while ago and returned them because they didn't sound very - 'clear'.
I also owned a set of Clear OGs and much preferred them, and would have kept them if it weren't for a slight rubbing/fluttering fluttering sound from one of the drivers. I thought the OGs were deserving of their name, and that they would have been a good open back pair to compliment the D9200s. I currently own a set of 2021 LCD-Xs, and while they're good, the D9200s are my go-to headphones, so I will probably sell the Audezes.

 

[Shooter41]

All this difference in opinion is exactly why we must listen to these phones for ourselves. I'd honestly be surprised if the Denons replace my Clear Mg's. I seem to gravitate toward the Focal sound, but again, I gotta try them so I'll know for sure. I should maybe mention that I'm a big fan of EQ. I'm a Roon user and it has excellent DSP abilities including parametric EQ and convolution filters. I run Roon (and nothing else) on an M1 Mac Mini so I have plenty of processing power available. I sometimes listen to Roon remote on a cheap Fire tablet at night with some small but surprisingly good B&O headphones. The Fire will do parametric but can't handle convolution. I use convolution with the Focals and it sounds right about 99% of the time. With that rare 1% (usually older, thinner recordings) I'll switch back to parametric so I can tweak it a bit. IMO either of these options smooths out the undesirable (to me at least) peaks and leaves the distilled, innate sound that the headphone has to enjoy. I will almost certainly be doing the same with the Denons.

As to OG Clears vs Mg's, I vastly preferred the Mg's once they were fully broken in. Much fuller low end with no penalty anywhere else in the range.

And with respect to sound stage, I don't think the part of my brain that processes that works correctly as I have never even understood what people are talking about with the term sound stage. I have never heard a wider or narrower "stage" or been able to place instruments in any particular place. It's a defect with me I'm sure, but maybe not the worst one to have as it takes that particular aspect out of the listening criteria. I've only had open backs to this point so you'd think I'd have heard it by now, even though I know Focals in particular are not known for having a very wide stage.

 

[MatW]

All this difference in opinion is exactly why we must listen to these phones for ourselves. I'd honestly be surprised if the Denons replace my Clear Mg's. I seem to gravitate toward the Focal sound, but again, I gotta try them so I'll know for sure. I should maybe mention that I'm a big fan of EQ. I'm a Roon user and it has excellent DSP abilities including parametric EQ and convolution filters. I run Roon (and nothing else) on an M1 Mac Mini so I have plenty of processing power available. I sometimes listen to Roon remote on a cheap Fire tablet at night with some small but surprisingly good B&O headphones. The Fire will do parametric but can't handle convolution. I use convolution with the Focals and it sounds right about 99% of the time. With that rare 1% (usually older, thinner recordings) I'll switch back to parametric so I can tweak it a bit. IMO either of these options smooths out the undesirable (to me at least) peaks and leaves the distilled, innate sound that the headphone has to enjoy. I will almost certainly be doing the same with the Denons.

As to OG Clears vs Mg's, I vastly preferred the Mg's once they were fully broken in. Much fuller low end with no penalty anywhere else in the range.

And with respect to sound stage, I don't think the part of my brain that processes that works correctly as I have never even understood what people are talking about with the term sound stage. I have never heard a wider or narrower "stage" or been able to place instruments in any particular place. It's a defect with me I'm sure, but maybe not the worst one to have as it takes that particular aspect out of the listening criteria. I've only had open backs to this point so you'd think I'd have heard it by now, even though I know Focals in particular are not known for having a very wide stage.

This will be interesting. Let’s see how you like it.

 

[zolkis]

All this difference in opinion is exactly why we must listen to these phones for ourselves. I'd honestly be surprised if the Denons replace my Clear Mg's. I seem to gravitate toward the Focal sound, but again, I gotta try them so I'll know for sure. I should maybe mention that I'm a big fan of EQ.

That is so much true, preferences are important.

I found new love towards the D9200, after striking a balance with custom ear pads (again). So resolving (vs upstream) and musical, not only across the whole frequency range, but in spatial and temporal domains as well, while maintaining good harmonic richness and balance.

Speaking about the stock D9200 and personal preferences, I tested extensively the Utopia and especially the Stellia (my favorite Focal, and closed), and also the Clear and the Clear Mg against the D9200 and let's say it's a personal preference, but I could not convince myself permanently choosing any of the Focal over the D9200 for the genres I am listening to.
I think that is OK, as is fine to prefer any of the Focal (or other metallic drivers) over the biocellulose family (Denon, Fostex, Drop, ZMF).

Besides, the Focal pads are excellent and well optimized, hard to improve, whereas the D9200 pads were quite easy to improve, lifting the D9200 into a higher category IMHO (nearly e-stat level, and with better bass slam). That, and the flexibility and headroom of the D9200 when EQ'ing, might flip the balance. IMHO the D9200 has surprisingly big reserves for further optimization or customization.

Things might be different if Focal would decide to make a Stellia with biocellulose drivers, which they would be perfectly capable of doing, but that likely won't happen anytime soon .

 

[MatW]

That is so much true, preferences are important.

I found new love towards the D9200, after striking a balance with custom ear pads (again). So resolving (vs upstream) and musical, not only across the whole frequency range, but in spatial and temporal domains as well, while maintaining good harmonic richness and balance.

Speaking about the stock D9200 and personal preferences, I tested extensively the Utopia and especially the Stellia (my favorite Focal, and closed), and also the Clear and the Clear Mg against the D9200 and let's say it's a personal preference, but I could not convince myself permanently choosing any of the Focal over the D9200 for the genres I am listening to.
I think that is OK, as is fine to prefer any of the Focal (or other metallic drivers) over the biocellulose family (Denon, Fostex, Drop, ZMF).

Besides, the Focal pads are excellent and well optimized, hard to improve, whereas the D9200 pads were quite easy to improve, lifting the D9200 into a higher category IMHO (nearly e-stat level, and with better bass slam). That, and the flexibility and headroom of the D9200 when EQ'ing, might flip the balance. IMHO the D9200 has surprisingly big reserves for further optimization or customization.

Things might be different if Focal would decide to make a Stellia with biocellulose drivers, which they would be perfectly capable of doing, but that likely won't happen anytime soon .

What pads are you using?

 

[Shooter41]

That is so much true, preferences are important.

I found new love towards the D9200, after striking a balance with custom ear pads (again). So resolving (vs upstream) and musical, not only across the whole frequency range, but in spatial and temporal domains as well, while maintaining good harmonic richness and balance.

Speaking about the stock D9200 and personal preferences, I tested extensively the Utopia and especially the Stellia (my favorite Focal, and closed), and also the Clear and the Clear Mg against the D9200 and let's say it's a personal preference, but I could not convince myself permanently choosing any of the Focal over the D9200 for the genres I am listening to.
I think that is OK, as is fine to prefer any of the Focal (or other metallic drivers) over the biocellulose family (Denon, Fostex, Drop, ZMF).

Besides, the Focal pads are excellent and well optimized, hard to improve, whereas the D9200 pads were quite easy to improve, lifting the D9200 into a higher category IMHO (nearly e-stat level, and with better bass slam). That, and the flexibility and headroom of the D9200 when EQ'ing, might flip the balance. IMHO the D9200 has surprisingly big reserves for further optimization or customization.

Things might be different if Focal would decide to make a Stellia with biocellulose drivers, which they would be perfectly capable of doing, but that likely won't happen anytime soon .

I was also going to ask what pads. I remember reading quite a bit (in this thread, I think) about folks not having much luck with pad changing. I've never changed any of my pads because I've never felt the need before.

I've never read any review, professional or not, of the Utopias that gave me any idea that I would like them. And at the Stellia's price I think I would rather try the Empyreans, so I've just been going on the assumption that the Clear Mg's are the end of the line for me as far as Focals are concerned.

You seem to believe, as do plenty of others, that the 9200's are very capable of punching above their price point. Those are exactly the kind of products that I love (who doesn't like a bargain?) so I plan to give them every chance to wow me. I've already put together 2 separate parametric eq presets and will get the convolution filter done here shortly. All of these are utilizing the professional measurements that are available. FedEx says they're here in town and should be delivered in the next 7 hrs, but FedEx lies regularly, so we'll see. Of course, all I'll know the first day is if the fit/comfort is ok.

 

[zolkis]

On the pads, I posted too much in this thread and also elsewhere (D7200, Stax 007, 009, TH900). Start with this post and below.

The original Denon pads are too much stuffed IMHO, a bit hard as a consequence, which gets softer by wearing because of the memory foam, but the problem is that it's overdamping the sound. The D5200 pads are slightly better.

The generic-best pads for a lot of headphones I owned were the Stax 009 pads (modded by parting the foam from the harder white styrol layer) described in many places, including the Stax mod thread). Specifically for the D9200, the Stax 007 pads modded the same way might be optimal, since they are less shallow. I know they are expensive to risk failure, but they also last far longer.

The D7200 was an exception, as they had very narrow playroom before starting to shout, and the best sound was by modding their own pads (cutting off ~30% of the internal foam, mostly from the back thickness, and slightly increasing the internal diameter of the foam cutout. These pads worked well also with the D9200, although the others sound even better.

The pads I use now are the Stax 009 leather shell with custom non-memory foam insert that I made (it's more lose with bigger cells, only 5 g weight per pad). But it sounds excellent also with the Stax foam insert, which is very soft and relatively dense cell structure (which I tried to source, but not much success).

In principle, look for soft leather pads with about 50x70 mm internal opening (or even larger), relatively shallow (about 18-20 mm in the back and 8-12 mm in the front).
The pads should not be tight around the foam. Some memory foams sound good (e.g. the one in Denon pads), others sound terrible (e.g. MrSpeakers). The same is true on other foams. With certain memory foams (like Denon), perforated leather pads sound better.

I know this sounds funny, but even small trims on the foam (negligible weight and volume) make quite clear changes in the sound, much more than cables for instance.

The strange magnitude of that effect was the motivating reason for me to enter this shady field of experiments, resulting in an experience that allows me to even shape the character of a headphone towards another, if there are sufficient "sonic reserves" in the drivers. That way I managed to make my D9200 sound really close to my best e-stats. They have similar sonic character now, except the e-stats still lead in smoothness and resolution, albeit with slightly less bass slam.

 

[Shooter41]

I appreciate the guidance. "Pad-rolling" is not something I'd consider getting into unless I decide that the 9200's are definite keepers. But if they are and I can tell that there's something special about them (to my ears) then I could see me possibly trying one of the modded Stax options.