DENAFRIPS 'ARES' R2R discrete ladder DAC - close up view
Jun 1, 2022 at 2:44 AM Post #3,241 of 3,907
I owned a Soekris dam1121 before with a self-built linear power supplies. Digital power from quad LT3045's, analog from a AMB σ22. Both from their own toroidal transformers. It was fed I2S from a Raspbery Pi 3B+, galvanically isolated with an IanCanada IsolatorPi II and reclocked by a Allo Kali 22/24 MHz. I have tried all sorts of filters both stock and custom filter packs.

It's good to remember that the Soekris units are mostly built around this same dam1121 module. What differs between the dacxxxx ranges is the number of modules (ladders), power supply topology, buffer stage and input/output connections. Of course the PSU and buffer stages as well as general hardware layout will impact the final result, but at its core they are all built around this same DAC module. I think that my PSU's and output buffer (none) are amongst the best that can be had.

I now own a Ares II.

Objectively I think both the Soekris units and the Ares II have measured very well on the likes of ASR and SBAF.

Technically - the level of implementation being equal - I think the Ares II leads by a few points.

Most importantly, it has dedicated oscillators whereas the Soekris has a single programmable clock. By definition a programmable clock will never reach the same level of performance as a dedicated clock (again, assuming both are of good build quality) and indeed it cannot match the jitter figures. Worse, the Soekris uses a PLL-like algorithm to track the input clock and program its oscillator accordingly. This algorithm has been shown on diyAudio to be unstable (and as control systems theory also dictates, a follower will never be as good as the incoming clock) causing the programmable clock to shift continuously. In short, the Ares clock is much better, offering lower jitter and perhaps more importantly: clock stability.

Second: the Ares PSU is linear from an oversized toroid. The latest Soekris incarnations are SMPS. In the end this may down boil down to preference (I for sure know that Hypex makes SMPS's with jaw-dropping measurements and the dac2541 is excellent too) but again, build quality being the same I think that linear supplies have the edge here.

Third: Coupling capacitors in the Ares are much higher grade Nichicon's (from the top of my head) where on the Soekris they are SMD-type.

Subjectively, I have never liked the stock Soekris filters. I don't find them engaging or dynamic. This became especially apparent for me when I switch to custom NOS filters (quasi-NOS, like in the Ares). These do make the Soekris come to life. To me, the Ares' stock filters are like the best custom Soekris filters. Out-of-the-box they are very good. I am still on the fence whether I like OS slow or NOS better.

Circling back, remember that all Soekris DAC's revolve around the same module. I think the Ares II will be better than the dac2541 because it has several technical advantages. I would say both are engineered equally well (not talking about the aesthetics) and so that technical advantage can and does shine. Certainly the clocking!
 
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Jun 1, 2022 at 2:33 PM Post #3,242 of 3,907
Any comments on where Soekris DACs fall when it comes to performance against the Ares II (or Denafrips in general)? Build quality seems like Denafrips takes it easily, but what about sound? Would the Soekris 1421 compare to the Ares II? Would the 2541 best the Ares II but clearly fall short of the Pontus II?
I agree with the previous response. I want to add that 2541 is not fully balanced DAC, ladder decoder is not. I have no issue with use of SMPS, but a design is simplified comparing the model it replaced, it is why I mention this. It is made cheaper and a digital volume control is implemented to address a mass market, not a serious audiophile user. On the positive side, it has isolator on the USB port, it means it will perform more consistent in various systems.

Ares has no such price cuts except a missing USB isolator. It can satisfy real audiophile requirements, by example there is no opamps in the signal path. I can recommend Ares without reservation.

In the Soekris thread you asked question regarding use of XLR output for headphones. With Ares you can't, it has a passive output, it cannot be heavy loaded.

If you want a combo with headphone amp/preamp I suggest to look at Audio GD R2R-11Mk2. Sound has a different character, is more dynamic and natural sounding, while Ares more calm and relaxing. NOS is the only mode available, no digital processing.
 
Jun 1, 2022 at 6:42 PM Post #3,244 of 3,907
I owned a Soekris dam1121 before with a self-built linear power supplies. Digital power from quad LT3045's, analog from a AMB σ22. Both from their own toroidal transformers. It was fed I2S from a Raspbery Pi 3B+, galvanically isolated with an IanCanada IsolatorPi II and reclocked by a Allo Kali 22/24 MHz. I have tried all sorts of filters both stock and custom filter packs.

It's good to remember that the Soekris units are mostly built around this same dam1121 module. What differs between the dacxxxx ranges is the number of modules (ladders), power supply topology, buffer stage and input/output connections. Of course the PSU and buffer stages as well as general hardware layout will impact the final result, but at its core they are all built around this same DAC module. I think that my PSU's and output buffer (none) are amongst the best that can be had.

I now own a Ares II.

Objectively I think both the Soekris units and the Ares II have measured very well on the likes of ASR and SBAF.

Technically - the level of implementation being equal - I think the Ares II leads by a few points.

Most importantly, it has dedicated oscillators whereas the Soekris has a single programmable clock. By definition a programmable clock will never reach the same level of performance as a dedicated clock (again, assuming both are of good build quality) and indeed it cannot match the jitter figures. Worse, the Soekris uses a PLL-like algorithm to track the input clock and program its oscillator accordingly. This algorithm has been shown on diyAudio to be unstable (and as control systems theory also dictates, a follower will never be as good as the incoming clock) causing the programmable clock to shift continuously. In short, the Ares clock is much better, offering lower jitter and perhaps more importantly: clock stability.

Second: the Ares PSU is linear from an oversized toroid. The latest Soekris incarnations are SMPS. In the end this may down boil down to preference (I for sure know that Hypex makes SMPS's with jaw-dropping measurements and the dac2541 is excellent too) but again, build quality being the same I think that linear supplies have the edge here.

Third: Coupling capacitors in the Ares are much higher grade Nichicon's (from the top of my head) where on the Soekris they are SMD-type.

Subjectively, I have never liked the stock Soekris filters. I don't find them engaging or dynamic. This became especially apparent for me when I switch to custom NOS filters (quasi-NOS, like in the Ares). These do make the Soekris come to life. To me, the Ares' stock filters are like the best custom Soekris filters. Out-of-the-box they are very good. I am still on the fence whether I like OS slow or NOS better.

Circling back, remember that all Soekris DAC's revolve around the same module. I think the Ares II will be better than the dac2541 because it has several technical advantages. I would say both are engineered equally well (not talking about the aesthetics) and so that technical advantage can and does shine. Certainly the clocking!
This is some great information. I've heard others talk about using custom filters on the Soekris DAC's but I never bothered to look into them. I'm curious, what custom filters do you prefer and where does one get them?
 
Jun 4, 2022 at 3:59 AM Post #3,245 of 3,907
There is a thread on diyAudio called “filter brewing” for the Soekris DACs or something like that.

I very much liked the C128dp filter as well as many of the later filters by user “gumisb” that I called NewNOS++. The very latest packs were experimental and I found them not as good. If you go into that thread you will find me posting links to specific downloads. It’s been a while so I don’t remember now from the top of my head.

On the Soekris I was a NOS guy but many have liked a custom linear filter by a user TNT as well.
 
Jun 4, 2022 at 7:10 PM Post #3,246 of 3,907
There is a thread on diyAudio called “filter brewing” for the Soekris DACs or something like that.

I very much liked the C128dp filter as well as many of the later filters by user “gumisb” that I called NewNOS++. The very latest packs were experimental and I found them not as good. If you go into that thread you will find me posting links to specific downloads. It’s been a while so I don’t remember now from the top of my head.

On the Soekris I was a NOS guy but many have liked a custom linear filter by a user TNT as well.
Thanks for the info. I just poked around on diyAudio and, according to post #2388 in the filter brewing thread, the dac2541 doesn't support custom filters yet. Thought I might give some a try on the dac2541 I have here but I guess not.
 
Jun 16, 2022 at 5:25 PM Post #3,247 of 3,907
Any comments on where Soekris DACs fall when it comes to performance against the Ares II (or Denafrips in general)? Build quality seems like Denafrips takes it easily, but what about sound? Would the Soekris 1421 compare to the Ares II? Would the 2541 best the Ares II but clearly fall short of the Pontus II?
i had a chance to do some a/b testing with the ares and soekris 1321, on both my stax setup and speakers the past few weeks and ultimately i couldnt tell much of a difference and sold off the ares. the differences are very subtle at least from the music i listened to.
 
Jun 22, 2022 at 5:45 PM Post #3,248 of 3,907
Considering getting a new dac, I’m currently using the Shanling M6 pro 21 but thinking of something better to replace it with. The r2r have caught my eye so trying decide what one would suit me the best.
Planning on using iPad 4 air as source and between the Bitfrost 2, Ares 2 or possible the Pegasus. My main concern is warranty and buying used.
Has anyone had issues with there Ares 2 that had to use warranty? My understanding is the Ares warranty is transferable but requires the seller to transfer it over. So would rather find one on here that’s being sold by a longtime head fi member that would transfer it over.
Anyways guess question is how reliable the Ares 2 is and double checking that it work with apple iPad 4 (one of the main issue with Shanling is it doesn’t work as usb dac). Also if anyone considering selling there’s keep me in mind.
 
Jun 22, 2022 at 8:22 PM Post #3,249 of 3,907
@Ufanco , the warranty is transferable from the original owner to the second owner.
Please reach out to us at support@vinshineaudio.com should you need help.


Ares II works with Android and iOS. FYI:
4b933e_b179ea0b334d4a558fa57c79bb78c58c~mv2.png


https://www.vinshineaudio.com/post/smartphone-tablet-denafrips-dac
 
Jun 24, 2022 at 2:48 PM Post #3,250 of 3,907
After weeks of reading reviews forums and along with many emails I have decided to go with the Ares ii. I’ll like to thank Alvin for taking the time to quickly answer my question, along with the member of this forum who offered help.
Bought this mainly to be used in my iem system. I feel it with the Xduoo ta20 and Mest mk ii it should have a nice warm sound signature and be different than the dac I am using.
I‘m also going try it on my home system, have a feeling it fit right in with my older collection of gear. I believe good gear last, so home system it Denon AVR 3803 7.1 klipsch speakers with a svs subwoofer. I mainly use a Pioneer 563a sacd/dvda player as a source with home system so I’m curious to hear what the Ares ii using hi rez source sounds vs the Pioneer.
Now that the hard choice been is made it’s just finding some descent cables to hook it all up.

 
Jun 24, 2022 at 2:55 PM Post #3,251 of 3,907
After weeks of reading reviews forums and along with many emails I have decided to go with the Ares ii. I’ll like to thank Alvin for taking the time to quickly answer my question, along with the member of this forum who offered help.
Bought this mainly to be used in my iem system. I feel it with the Xduoo ta20 and Mest mk ii it should have a nice warm sound signature and be different than the dac I am using.
I‘m also going try it on my home system, have a feeling it fit right in with my older collection of gear. I believe good gear last, so home system it Denon AVR 3803 7.1 klipsch speakers with a svs subwoofer. I mainly use a Pioneer 563a sacd/dvda player as a source with home system so I’m curious to hear what the Ares ii using hi rez source sounds vs the Pioneer.
Now that the hard choice been is made it’s just finding some descent cables to hook it all up.

I just boughtMoon Audio black dragon xlr
 
Jun 24, 2022 at 10:37 PM Post #3,253 of 3,907
In fact I just got that moon audio xlr and I'm very impressed with the build quality!
 
Jun 24, 2022 at 10:53 PM Post #3,254 of 3,907
In fact I just got that moon audio xlr and I'm very impressed with the build quality!
Moon audio makes some nice cables.
 
Jun 25, 2022 at 12:42 AM Post #3,255 of 3,907
I have another ares and the case is different...I wonder if anything inside has changed?
 
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