[HTSkywalker]

I agree: with tube h/p/a, I will always plug in after amp on, take out before amp off.

Same

 

[HTSkywalker]

Wow, such competition for my undying devotion (until I change my mind!). Thanks for the help. I”ll use my cheap bluetooth headphones with a wire as sacrificial lambs, and cover both bets.

Now with that settled (kinda) back to the Scotch/BBQ/soldering business

 

[jonathan c]

Now with that settled (kinda) back to the Scotch/BBQ/soldering business

More precisely: back to the business of soldering tube pins after filling up on Scotch & BBQ...

 

[HTSkywalker]

More precisely: back to the business of soldering tube pins after filling up on Scotch & BBQ...

Still coffee time at this side of the

 

[bcowen]

Noob question here. I have worked for decades as a bassist, and you never run a tube amp without a speaker load. Does this also apply to non 300 watt amps like Darkvoice? Like, do I need headphones plugged in during burn-ins, or before turning the amp on? Thanks for the help! (I know this probably doesn’t belong in this Scotch/BBQ/soldering forum...)

As with most everything audio, it depends. Depends on the design of the amp and assuming we're talking only about tube amps here. Most transformer coupled designs (eg: utilizing output transformers) are not happy without a load connected. But even with them, it's design dependent -- Cary amps can be run all day with no load attached without issue and I've personally seen racks filled with new amps going through a 48-hour burn-in after assembly (no load attached) to weed out potential infant mortality problems. I've also seen O&M manuals on some other transformer-coupled amps that specifically warn NOT to turn the amp on without a load connected. As the DV has no output transformers, there is little (and probably no) risk to run them with no load attached, either through the HP output or line level outputs. Not sure on the Incubus -- @Paladin79 would need to chime in if there is any risk running without a load connected. I've seen a number of pictures he's posted though with the power button lit up and no HP's connected so I'm guessing it's not an issue, but that's only an assumption on my part.

I'd bet most of the popping results from having no soft-start circuitry built into the DV, and the full B+ voltage hitting the plates before the cathodes warm up and get the bias to the right voltage.

 

[bcowen]

More precisely: back to the business of soldering tube pins after filling up on Scotch & BBQ...

If you want to fill up your pins with scotch and BBQ, more power to 'ya man. Just be sure it's NC BBQ, or the sound will likely take a really bad turn for the worse.

 

[HTSkywalker]

As with most everything audio, it depends. Depends on the design of the amp and assuming we're talking only about tube amps here. Most transformer coupled designs (eg: utilizing output transformers) are not happy without a load connected. But even with them, it's design dependent -- Cary amps can be run all day with no load attached without issue and I've personally seen racks filled with new amps going through a 48-hour burn-in after assembly (no load attached) to weed out potential infant mortality problems. I've also seen O&M manuals on some other transformer-coupled amps that specifically warn NOT to turn the amp on without a load connected. As the DV has no output transformers, there is little (and probably no) risk to run them with no load attached, either through the HP output or line level outputs. Not sure on the Incubus -- @Paladin79 would need to chime in if there is any risk running without a load connected. I've seen a number of pictures he's posted though with the power button lit up and no HP's connected so I'm guessing it's not an issue, but that's only an assumption on my part.

I'd bet most of the popping results from having no soft-start circuitry built into the DV, and the full B+ voltage hitting the plates before the cathodes warm up and get the bias to the right voltage.

I exceeded a 100 hour operation time on the DV, either by powering it without load at all, keeping it on without a power tube to burn-in driver's tubes or as a pre-amp with no cans attached. No problems whatsoever.

 

[jonathan c]

If you want to fill up your pins with scotch and BBQ, more power to 'ya man. Just be sure it's NC BBQ, or the sound will likely take a really bad turn for the worse.

And if it is TX BBQ (txymoron?)...the outcome is...

 

[Paladin79]

As with most everything audio, it depends. Depends on the design of the amp and assuming we're talking only about tube amps here. Most transformer coupled designs (eg: utilizing output transformers) are not happy without a load connected. But even with them, it's design dependent -- Cary amps can be run all day with no load attached without issue and I've personally seen racks filled with new amps going through a 48-hour burn-in after assembly (no load attached) to weed out potential infant mortality problems. I've also seen O&M manuals on some other transformer-coupled amps that specifically warn NOT to turn the amp on without a load connected. As the DV has no output transformers, there is little (and probably no) risk to run them with no load attached, either through the HP output or line level outputs. Not sure on the Incubus -- @Paladin79 would need to chime in if there is any risk running without a load connected. I've seen a number of pictures he's posted though with the power button lit up and no HP's connected so I'm guessing it's not an issue, but that's only an assumption on my part.

I'd bet most of the popping results from having no soft-start circuitry built into the DV, and the full B+ voltage hitting the plates before the cathodes warm up and get the bias to the right voltage.

I have no problem running Incubus without load when I first turn it on, especially when testing new tubes that could have issue but then I generally hook up less expensive headphones as a load if I am burning in tubes. I have run some Incubi to extremes just to see what might fail and no harm was ever done running one without a load because I tried that as well.

 

[Paladin79]

Getting back to driver and power tubes, I just completed work on a prototype for a gentleman from Chicago. The complaint was it measured well but did not sound that good and needed more base. After extensive work on the tube circuits and output stage I sent him a 1953 Foton and a GE 5998A. He absolutely loved the new sound even with other tubes but the combination I sent him did far more for the bass. Some of you have heard both types of tubes and using them in conjunction can be a real treat for some types of music. They are not something I run day in and day out but they have their place if you want to shape the sound of an amp just a bit.

 

[HTSkywalker]

I have no problem running Incubus without load when I first turn it on, especially when testing new tubes that could have issue but then I generally hook up less expensive headphones as a load if I am burning in tubes. I have run some Incubi to extremes just to see what might fail and no harm was ever done running one without a load because I tried that as well.

This public statement could be considered as manufacturer’s lifetime warranty

 

[HTSkywalker]

For now @Paladin79 should resist the high temptation to tease Bill till the tester business is concluded
Am sure it’s hard to do

 

[Paladin79]

This public statement could be considered as manufacturer’s lifetime warranty

LOL no. It just means I do things like run my personal Incubus without rubber feet so it gets less air flow so I can see if anything fails. It is still quite good with no parts failing. By doing this I know that other amps should be fine with a bit more ventilation.

 

[HTSkywalker]

LOL no. It just means I do things like run my personal Incubus without rubber feet so it gets less air flow so I can see if anything fails. It is still quite good with no parts failing. By doing this I know that other amps should be fine with a bit more ventilation.

Location and temperature dependent as well. Probably Bill will take it all the way to the Grand Canyon to prove you wrong

 

[Ripper2860]

I’ve read the exact opposite that it is wise to not have headphones pliugged in when turning on/off a tube amp. The headphones drivers can overload if the tube goes bad causing a loud popping sound and blowing the headphone drivers. I had the popping sound happen to me with a new NOS tube I received and was lucky my headphones did not blow but it was a scary sound.

That's the wonderful part of this hobby -- there's multiple and contrary opinions for virtually everything. I've read several that stated that what is best for the amp and tubes is to have a load present when powered on. I responded to what is best for the amp -- not the HPs. I stand by my comment that OTL maps should ideally have a load when powered on or operating. Sure there's always the possibility that a catastrophic tube failure could take out a HP, but one fact does not negate the other. Operating the amp with no load for extended times w/o a HP, such as when burning in the amp or tubes is not the ideal for these types of amps. If anything it contributes to earlier tube or amp demise. If there's angst about powering on/off an amp on with HPs connected, then plug it in shortly after power-on and unplug just before power-off. I would not run the amp with no load for long periods.

(I too use cheap HPs for tube burn-in. )