cjs
New Head-Fier
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After trying the tubes I will list below, the best combination was the Western Electric 421A with a Sylvania 6SN7WGT. [size=xx-small](Note that the WE 421A is identical to the less expensive Tung-Sol 5998, but not to the Tung-Sol 5998A. I got lucky on ebay with the 421A, otherwise I would have looked for a 5998).[/size]
Disclaimer: I am not an expert in tubes, or music, and I have not tried all possible combinations of the front and back tubes listed below. I am sharing impressions, in an effort to contribute to this excellent thread. Don't rush to buy or sell anything based on my opinions
. Also note that I have a 336i, an EMU 0404 USB, and the AKG 701's. With another pair of headphones, a different combination of tubes may be better.
So, I had been listening with a Sylvania 6SN7GT and a Svetlana 6H13C - an inexpensive but decent setup that I had found on this forum. I thought this was great, until a couple of months ago when I proudly asked a friend to listen to my setup. This guy is a musician and has experience with recording studios, etc. He thought the sound was good and detailed, but lacked midrange!
The situation called for immediate action so, after some research, I was off to ebay. When I returned from holidays last week, it was nice to find several packages waiting.
I started with the back tube, and replaced the Svetlana with a General Electric 5-star (military spec) 6080. This combo sounded relatively bad. No sound stage, no bass, no dynamic range, dry and flat. I concluded, mistakenly, that the GE6080 is a useless tube which turns the 336i into a solid-state radio.
The RCA 6AS7G was an improvement, a lot of bass, mellow sound, power. I soon found, however, that the bass was too much: "blooming" overtly and with no detail.
At this point, I decided to get rid of the Sylvania GT. The Brimar 6SN7GT proved an excellent tube - especially considering the price. More instrument separation and generally more "exciting" compared to the Sylvania it replaced. This was the UK Brimar I have, not the Brimar USA which looks and sounds just like the Sylvania GT. But the bass from the RCA remained unrealistic, even when I tried the two other Sylvanias with it: the 6SN7W and the 6SN7WGT.
Trying the supposedly great WE 421A with the Brimar in the front removed the bass but introduced confusion. Midrange was too much and too slow, making it difficult to separate instruments. The sound became "muddled". I thought: the 421A is not that great.
So I tried the GE6080 again, this time with the 6SN7W: A totally different sound from when it was paired with the original Sylvania GT! Bass low but OK, soundstage OK, midrange OK, but incredible clarity! I could hear everything that was going on in Handel's La Rejouissance from Hifi News' Test Disk III. And the acoustic guitar of Robert Lockwood, Jr, from his TELARC CD Delta Crossroads, sounded real too. Vocals is where I realized that something was seriously missing.
I kept the 6SN7W and tried to mellow the sound with the RCA 6080. I thought: if the RCA 6AS7G is bassy and mellow, then maybe RCA did the same with their 6080s. (This should remove all doubt as to how much of an expert I am
). In fact, the bass was a little stronger and the sound was softer.
I took out the 6SN7W and tried the 6SN7WGT with the RCA6080: Even more clarity and dynamics! This was a surprise because, from searching the net, I had thought the 6SN7W was the best front tube I bought. Granted, I got mine cheaply because of a cracked base, but it sounds strong and the slight hum on the left channel disappeared after 30 minutes of pink noise. With several pages on the net praising both the metal and the black base 6SN7W, I had expected it to be the best. I looked at the 6SN7WGT and realized that the plates have three holes (like the famous "bad-boy"). My 6SN7W has two holes and a short bottle. The difference in the sound is not too obvious but, with high quality sources, the WGT wins.
Having realized by now that you cannot discount a single tube - only a combination of front and back - I decided to try the WE 421A with the Sylvania 6SN7WGT. And this is where I have stopped "rolling" for now (with the exception of also trying the 6SN7W with the 421A - to check that the 6SN7WGT still wins). There is detail, soundstage, separation, enough softness, dynamic range and, on top of it all, the midrange is fixed. There is realistic midrange but also clarity and quick dynamic response. Every source I have tried sounds fantastic with this combination. I never expected the 336i to improve so much.
Here are all the tubes used (click for larger photos):
[size=medium]Front[/size]
Sylvania 6SN7GT VT-231
Sylvania 6SN7GTB
Sylvania 6SN7W, black base
Sylvania 6SN7WGT
Brimar 6SN7GT (UK)
Brimar 6SN7GT (USA - a Sylvania?)
[size=medium]Back[/size]
Svetlana 6H13C
GE 6080
RCA 6AS7G
RCA 6080
WE 421A
You will notice that I did not mention the 6SN7GTB. I tried it, but the volume was very low. I gave it 5 minutes to warm up, and although there was some improvement, the volume was still too low. Tried the pencil test and it is not microphonic. Perhaps this $0.99 tube is way past its better days. Or the GTB's "controlled warm-up" time is longer than I am willing to wait. I realize all tubes require from 10 minutes to half an hour to warm up to full potential, but volume should have risen fairly quickly?
----------------------------
Update:
Several months later, I have tried two more tubes:
The Bendix 6080WB in the back:
And the RCA 5692 red-base up front:
The 5692, combined with the WE 421A, was an improvement over the 6SN7WGT. It seemed more responsive and clearer.
For a few months I had been using this combination - 421A with the RCA red-base. Until a few days ago, when I found a pair of -very reasonably priced- Bendix 6080WB. In this thread, and elsewhere, I had read nothing but high praise for this tube so I was anxious to try it.
Swapping it for the 421A, and leaving the red-base 5692, was rather disappointing. I tried to give this, theoretically superior combination, the best chance to prove itself but it clearly was a step down. It sounded "flatter", a little muddled at times, and too "solid-state". Where there was clarity, it was without as much "life": a lot of spatial positioning and transient impressions were lost. Of course, all this was in comparison to the previous setup.
I left the bendix in place and replaced the red-base with the trusted 6SN7WGT. The change was striking! It was like my previous best combination, 421A with the red-base, only more "honest". The bass was equally present but even "tighter", the mid range was accurate but also colorful, perfectly separated, and responsive. The highs were impressive - almost got me worried that they were a bit too much until I realized that this is what they were supposed to have sounded like in the first place!
So, to conclude my (subjective, untrained, and by no means "professional") roll, these are my best tubes for the 336i and the AKG 701s:
Second place:
First place:
Disclaimer: I am not an expert in tubes, or music, and I have not tried all possible combinations of the front and back tubes listed below. I am sharing impressions, in an effort to contribute to this excellent thread. Don't rush to buy or sell anything based on my opinions
So, I had been listening with a Sylvania 6SN7GT and a Svetlana 6H13C - an inexpensive but decent setup that I had found on this forum. I thought this was great, until a couple of months ago when I proudly asked a friend to listen to my setup. This guy is a musician and has experience with recording studios, etc. He thought the sound was good and detailed, but lacked midrange!
The situation called for immediate action so, after some research, I was off to ebay. When I returned from holidays last week, it was nice to find several packages waiting.
I started with the back tube, and replaced the Svetlana with a General Electric 5-star (military spec) 6080. This combo sounded relatively bad. No sound stage, no bass, no dynamic range, dry and flat. I concluded, mistakenly, that the GE6080 is a useless tube which turns the 336i into a solid-state radio.
The RCA 6AS7G was an improvement, a lot of bass, mellow sound, power. I soon found, however, that the bass was too much: "blooming" overtly and with no detail.
At this point, I decided to get rid of the Sylvania GT. The Brimar 6SN7GT proved an excellent tube - especially considering the price. More instrument separation and generally more "exciting" compared to the Sylvania it replaced. This was the UK Brimar I have, not the Brimar USA which looks and sounds just like the Sylvania GT. But the bass from the RCA remained unrealistic, even when I tried the two other Sylvanias with it: the 6SN7W and the 6SN7WGT.
Trying the supposedly great WE 421A with the Brimar in the front removed the bass but introduced confusion. Midrange was too much and too slow, making it difficult to separate instruments. The sound became "muddled". I thought: the 421A is not that great.
So I tried the GE6080 again, this time with the 6SN7W: A totally different sound from when it was paired with the original Sylvania GT! Bass low but OK, soundstage OK, midrange OK, but incredible clarity! I could hear everything that was going on in Handel's La Rejouissance from Hifi News' Test Disk III. And the acoustic guitar of Robert Lockwood, Jr, from his TELARC CD Delta Crossroads, sounded real too. Vocals is where I realized that something was seriously missing.
I kept the 6SN7W and tried to mellow the sound with the RCA 6080. I thought: if the RCA 6AS7G is bassy and mellow, then maybe RCA did the same with their 6080s. (This should remove all doubt as to how much of an expert I am
I took out the 6SN7W and tried the 6SN7WGT with the RCA6080: Even more clarity and dynamics! This was a surprise because, from searching the net, I had thought the 6SN7W was the best front tube I bought. Granted, I got mine cheaply because of a cracked base, but it sounds strong and the slight hum on the left channel disappeared after 30 minutes of pink noise. With several pages on the net praising both the metal and the black base 6SN7W, I had expected it to be the best. I looked at the 6SN7WGT and realized that the plates have three holes (like the famous "bad-boy"). My 6SN7W has two holes and a short bottle. The difference in the sound is not too obvious but, with high quality sources, the WGT wins.
Having realized by now that you cannot discount a single tube - only a combination of front and back - I decided to try the WE 421A with the Sylvania 6SN7WGT. And this is where I have stopped "rolling" for now (with the exception of also trying the 6SN7W with the 421A - to check that the 6SN7WGT still wins). There is detail, soundstage, separation, enough softness, dynamic range and, on top of it all, the midrange is fixed. There is realistic midrange but also clarity and quick dynamic response. Every source I have tried sounds fantastic with this combination. I never expected the 336i to improve so much.
Here are all the tubes used (click for larger photos):
[size=medium]Front[/size]
Sylvania 6SN7GT VT-231
Sylvania 6SN7GTB
Sylvania 6SN7W, black base
Sylvania 6SN7WGT
Brimar 6SN7GT (UK)
Brimar 6SN7GT (USA - a Sylvania?)
[size=medium]Back[/size]
Svetlana 6H13C
GE 6080
RCA 6AS7G
RCA 6080
WE 421A
You will notice that I did not mention the 6SN7GTB. I tried it, but the volume was very low. I gave it 5 minutes to warm up, and although there was some improvement, the volume was still too low. Tried the pencil test and it is not microphonic. Perhaps this $0.99 tube is way past its better days. Or the GTB's "controlled warm-up" time is longer than I am willing to wait. I realize all tubes require from 10 minutes to half an hour to warm up to full potential, but volume should have risen fairly quickly?
----------------------------
Update:
Several months later, I have tried two more tubes:
The Bendix 6080WB in the back:
And the RCA 5692 red-base up front:
The 5692, combined with the WE 421A, was an improvement over the 6SN7WGT. It seemed more responsive and clearer.
For a few months I had been using this combination - 421A with the RCA red-base. Until a few days ago, when I found a pair of -very reasonably priced- Bendix 6080WB. In this thread, and elsewhere, I had read nothing but high praise for this tube so I was anxious to try it.
Swapping it for the 421A, and leaving the red-base 5692, was rather disappointing. I tried to give this, theoretically superior combination, the best chance to prove itself but it clearly was a step down. It sounded "flatter", a little muddled at times, and too "solid-state". Where there was clarity, it was without as much "life": a lot of spatial positioning and transient impressions were lost. Of course, all this was in comparison to the previous setup.
I left the bendix in place and replaced the red-base with the trusted 6SN7WGT. The change was striking! It was like my previous best combination, 421A with the red-base, only more "honest". The bass was equally present but even "tighter", the mid range was accurate but also colorful, perfectly separated, and responsive. The highs were impressive - almost got me worried that they were a bit too much until I realized that this is what they were supposed to have sounded like in the first place!
So, to conclude my (subjective, untrained, and by no means "professional") roll, these are my best tubes for the 336i and the AKG 701s:
Second place:
First place:
