[VandyMan]

Do you plan to release special versions of “Not Harman” headphones (For example, Stealth NH, E NH)? Considering how much people spend debating the correctness of this or that frequency response, this could be the right decision. Den Clark Audio products would immediately capture the supporters of both warring camps.

That assumes that folks who don't like Harmon have some other reference curve that they do like. DCA headphones are very low distortion, so you can generally get good results EQing to your personal preference.

 

[mrspeakers]

Do you plan to release special versions of “Not Harman” headphones (For example, Stealth NH, E NH)? Considering how much people spend debating the correctness of this or that frequency response, this could be the right decision. Den Clark Audio products would immediately capture the supporters of both warring camps.

I have always been both a committed audiophile and a believer in science. The Harman response is not a specific target, it's a range of responses with a statstical average curve based on multiple user responses. Sean Olive, who made the Harman, has always been clear that the "Harman curve" is not an absolute target, and that there are plenty of people who wanted less bass, and plenty who wanted more, something like up to +6 and -4db bass relative to the average curve, for example. Preference varies in the upper registers too, but not as much as with bass.

Anything outside this range would simply be too colored for me to accept as a target, so I think the answer is that as with E3, we will introduce tailored variations on a theme but we're not just going to go random because IMHO anything outside the already large range of preferences defined within the Harman response would simply be too colored for me to accept.

Anyone who is "at war" with Harman is probably not understanding the whole "range" issue and treating it like it's one specific target. That said I've seen countless examples of people saying Harman has "too much bass and midrange" because they looked at the response curve, never heard a headphone with that curve, and didn't understand the difference between loudspeaker and headphone response profiles and were "listening to the curve."

So the bottom line to me is something that doesn't fall within the range of Harman would be so far out there from a tonality perspective that it just wouldn't fit our ethos, but within the framework we could do models with obviously very different tonality that are still in the realm of "Harman."

 

[mrspeakers]

That assumes that folks who don't like Harmon have some other reference curve that they do like. DCA headphones are very low distortion, so you can generally get good results EQing to your personal preference.

And then there's also this perfectly succinct response!

 

[Daniel Johnston]

Do you plan to release special versions of “Not Harman” headphones (For example, Stealth NH, E NH)? Considering how much people spend debating the correctness of this or that frequency response, this could be the right decision. Den Clark Audio products would immediately capture the supporters of both warring camps.

Any reason why a "Harman" headphone can't be EQ'd to more "neutral"? Many people with "neutral" headphones use amps/DACs/EQ to tailor the sound to their liking.

I like the fact that the Stealth can be EQ'd to my particular taste and music genre. For fun, I cranked the lower bass on the Mojo 2 listening to trance and EDM. The Steaths took it in stride with crazy present, non distorted bass. The reverse should be true as well. So, essentially the Harman tuning is irrelevant if the headphone (like the Stealth) can take EQ without distorting.

 

[Currawong]

I dislike digital EQs, as I can hear the loss of detail from using them in my system. But recently I got a Lokius in for review, and I think it's brilliant. Most of the time, I just need to turn up the bass dials to some degree when I'm listening to certain music where I want more impact. The audible losses were less than I had expected -- near nothing. I understand now why some people swear by EQ'ing.

 

[plumpudding2]

I dislike digital EQs, as I can hear the loss of detail from using them in my system. But recently I got a Lokius in for review, and I think it's brilliant. Most of the time, I just need to turn up the bass dials to some degree when I'm listening to certain music where I want more impact. The audible losses were less than I had expected -- near nothing. I understand now why some people swear by EQ'ing.

You use HQPlayer occasionally right? The new convolution conversion feature in 5.3 is pretty neat, I'm fully convinced EQ'ing through HQPlayer is completely lossless now.

 

[Daniel Johnston]

I dislike digital EQs, as I can hear the loss of detail from using them in my system. But recently I got a Lokius in for review, and I think it's brilliant. Most of the time, I just need to turn up the bass dials to some degree when I'm listening to certain music where I want more impact. The audible losses were less than I had expected -- near nothing. I understand now why some people swear by EQ'ing.

What is your impression of the Mojo 2 EQ?

I'm not an EQ fan except to boost bass when I'm in that mood.

 

[jlbrach]

It's always the same with every review; on ASR the measurement purists flame anything subjective, while there are also people here and other forums that reject or just don't care about measurements.

Me, I think all approaches are reasonable. Pure subjective, measured, and mixed are all fine. I do suggest that reviews that lean on measurements or are truly measurement-driven would benefit from creating subjective impressions first. That said, some measurement-driven reviews don't even include subjective impressions...

For the record, Amir listened to the headphone and shared his private impressions with me BEFORE he measured, and they were exactly the same he shared after he measured.

As to the Harman curve itself, as I've said many times I liken it to the Pirate's Code, more of a guideline really. I do think the approach headphones.com uses of showing the range of values to the curve is helpful because the Harman was an average of a wide range of results and it's helpful to understand that when visualizing the response curves to see where it falls in the range.

In the end, I think people who take an absolute view on this should just accept that what works for them may not work for others, and in this hobby it's a bit less about finding absolute truth and just enjoying yourself.

and I can understand why you would defend him given that your HP is pretty much the only high end HP he didnt mock for being too expensive or not as good as some inexpensive model....otherwise his site is basically a group of people who delight in mocking everyone else who deigns to spend more than what a topping amp costs etc

 

[mrspeakers]

and I can understand why you would defend him given that your HP is pretty much the only high end HP he didnt mock for being too expensive or not as good as some inexpensive model....otherwise his site is basically a group of people who delight in mocking everyone else who deigns to spend more than what a topping amp costs etc

I defend head-fi and subjective reviewers on ASR too. I just believe everyone interested in the hobby should be able to approach it as they please without ideological bias. I appreciate all views, as I am a subjective-objectivist.

 

[DMITRIY R]

I'm not a big fan of equalizers, but on Dan's advice I decided to use it.
50% reduced Harman hump below 100 hertz and 80% reduced Harman hump at high frequencies.
With this setting, vocal parts are better perceived, high frequencies do not disturb, even on not the best recordings and modern music, low frequencies have acquired a good physical punch. If the headphones had this setting by default, the Abyss 1266 would have no chance of competing. They were left with only the leadership in stage construction and stage size.
Once again I am convinced that the Harman curve is wrong. There is no point in increasing high frequencies so much.

Spoiler: Dan Clark Stealth Measurements

Spoiler: Equalizer

 

[dougq]

I'm not a big fan of equalizers, but on Dan's advice I decided to use it.
50% reduced Harman hump below 100 hertz and 80% reduced Harman hump at high frequencies.
With this setting, vocal parts are better perceived, high frequencies do not disturb, even on not the best recordings and modern music, low frequencies have acquired a good physical punch. If the headphones had this setting by default, the Abyss 1266 would have no chance of competing. They were left with only the leadership in stage construction and stage size.
Once again I am convinced that the Harman curve is wrong. There is no point in increasing high frequencies so much.

Spoiler: Dan Clark Stealth Measurements

Spoiler: Equalizer

That’s awesome it worked for you but how you hear things doesn’t mean it’s wrong. That’s the whole point is it allows you to make adjustments based on preferences.

 

[FooFighter]

I'm not a big fan of equalizers, but on Dan's advice I decided to use it.
50% reduced Harman hump below 100 hertz and 80% reduced Harman hump at high frequencies.
With this setting, vocal parts are better perceived, high frequencies do not disturb, even on not the best recordings and modern music, low frequencies have acquired a good physical punch. If the headphones had this setting by default, the Abyss 1266 would have no chance of competing. They were left with only the leadership in stage construction and stage size.
Once again I am convinced that the Harman curve is wrong. There is no point in increasing high frequencies so much.

Spoiler: Dan Clark Stealth Measurements

Spoiler: Equalizer

Can you post your PEQ adjustments?
Always nice trying out new suggestions

 

[DMITRIY R]

That’s awesome it worked for you but how you hear things doesn’t mean it’s wrong. That’s the whole point is it allows you to make adjustments based on preferences.

I agree with you that all these settings are individual. For me, the main criterion for correctness is:
- low frequencies do not overshadow the rest of the range and do not cause fatigue or headaches during prolonged listening. Regardless of the musical genre.
- the midrange is clearly audible, does not overshadow other frequencies and has a pinch of magic.
- high-pitched chats are clearly audible. They don't shout.
- you can listen to music for a long time without the need to adjust the volume for each music track (if they are recorded at approximately the same volume level).
All these conditions work for me when setting the equalizer that I published above.

 

[Arniesb]

and I can understand why you would defend him given that your HP is pretty much the only high end HP he didnt mock for being too expensive or not as good as some inexpensive model....otherwise his site is basically a group of people who delight in mocking everyone else who deigns to spend more than what a topping amp costs etc

Dont be a crybaby about the fact that your toy got trashed.
Dan, Sennheiser are not designing headphones blindly.

 

[Daniel Johnston]

Dont be a crybaby about the fact that your toy got trashed.
Dan, Sennheiser are not designing headphones blindly.

@jlbrach has a fair point. I don't know what axe you are grinding. That site just trashed the Susvara. Apparently, the Susvara can't handle Harman tuning or Amir's tuning to his maximum listening level therefore is voted as Poor. And he pushed aside the Benchmark amp included in the review in favor of the topping A90.

Same with the Utopia/Clear because Amir couldn't listen to it with the bass cranked up at loud SPL without hitting the driver limit. He didn't like the clearly and obviously Harman tuned ML5909 because it didn't have enough soundstage. The Diana V2 was likewise poorly designed per ASR. But, you can EQ the crap out of $20 Sony headphones and have a high recommendation from him! The list goes on and on.

It's not the objection to measurements or the realization that spending more money doesn't gives necessarily give better sound or results. It's the absolute silly capricious recommendations and arrogance to call something poorly designed because it doesn't meet Amir's SINAD or stock tuning requirements. I'm happy Dan is willing to participate over there to educate those who only focus on cost.

I will gladly pay people like Dan and his company for their products even though they are more expensive. It is ludicrous to compare Sennheiser to DCA only as far as both make excellent products.