[Toonartist]

So there are a few things about all this that I find confusing:

1. If your modem/router is coloring your sound in any way whatsoever, it's broken. You would feel this not just across your audio devices but all your devices in terms of increased latency, connecting stability, etc. This is not a debatable issue - if routers don't meet a variety of standardized criteria, they flat out won't work with the rest of your network able devices. How would they?

2. Power availability also doesn't seem to be a debatable issue. You have enough or you don't. There is some wiggle room around things like THD, IMD, filter speed, etc. depending on your age, listening habits, environment. I don't personally feel these things are audible but there's a small argument to be made. But power is not one of them - it's literally a binary choice.

Given we both have Stealth, I would encourage you to play back Max Richter's Cradle to the Grave on your lowest powered device, followed by next highest, and then higher and so on. For me that's the E1DA gen3, then iFi Diablo, then A90. The E1DA soft clips very early on - bass basically stops getting louder. If iFi hard clips because it's a garbage design, and the A90 plays clean shaking my whole face with no added EQ at all. If this isn't a power availability issue, what is it? How would a transport cause this effect?

Finally, what defines "good power" and "tonal density"? If we can't agree on some objective metric, there's no hope of unwrapping the situation accurately

While I don't agree with many of his points, when it comes to routers and switches it's not their ability to transfer the data accurately that's the issue... it's their ability to transfer electrical noise along with the data. This electrical noise will travel down ethernet cables and while it doesn't alter. or impact the data, when it reaches a streamer, it can effect audio sound quality at that point. When changing standard power supplies to LPS's etc, they act as a filter and will add/remove certain noise which results in a difference in sound.

This is why using fibre optics as a cable for your network can stop the transfer of RF noise from one device to another. RF noise will result in a brighter sound, slightly wider sound stage and increase noise floor. This might be preferable to some... it's a preference thing. Each to their own.

 

[801evan]

it's not their ability to transfer the data accurately that's the issue

Thank you. Basically that is one of the many issues like galvanic isolation and electric coupling.

 

[801evan]

Anyone has any idea why cradle to grave is a track the usually clips?

 

[Jimthecoffeeguy]

Oh gosh. You have to Google that one as it'll do a better job and sound more qualified.

To add in cradle to grave. The sub-bass note is so low that if I'm not prepared, it'll spook me like an earthquake is about to happen in the room. We get earthquakes recently. So the subbass has a perception of being distant, yet it's not foggy or veiled. It still sounds pure and dense and slightly out of body because it feels like my ears isn't picking the bass and more like it's coming from the room about to experience an earthquake.

I could be wrong, but if you can't clip on cradle to the grave and you don't destroy your driver's your doing it wrong dude.

My schiit magnius/modius and benchmark stacks both either clipped or activated power protection. But it's so loud and vibratey that it was scary to listen to for your hearings sake. And when power protect hits and you get instant silence? I almost pooped myself.

As for your modem/clock theory that's wrong sorry. I know clocks and timers well and they will operate perfectly within their design spec. A more stable voltage will make zero difference unless it's a 15yo 802.11b router that was hand built by a very drink Ukrainian man in his back shed on a sunday.
If you want more details I'd need a part number for the clocks (,yes plural, there's more than one in most devices now days for accuracy and redundancy) and a datasheet, plus the device or schematic to trace.

Also, in a data transfer, data is sent in packets with checksums. So no your router won't affect anything. If a packet fails at reciever it will bounce back. it is then re-sent by the host device. Too many failures and the youll throw an error, reconnect due to poor signal or get an ",unable to playback" style message.


Please, if you don't understand how electronics or data transfer works stop explaining them to others.

 

[Jimthecoffeeguy]

Anyone has any idea why cradle to grave is a track the usually clips?

Yes. Because of the massive amount of bass/sub bass (and their frequency's I think? Not sure)
Depending on amp/dac they can't handle it and either distorts or clips at high levels.
It takes a huge amount of oooompf to drive the stealth up to 100% volume on this track (if stealth even has a limit tbh)

 

[801evan]

.... exactly. I'll leave it to the lurkers to decide on listening to people who are clipping cradle to grave vs the one that doesn't and being condemned to have outrageous claims.
I didn't expect you to be clipping it but to have a stance where yours is clipping and mine isnt so mine is wrong is definitely the odd toxic behavior of the commenters here for the past few days. Instead of moving forward, you wanna drag ppl to your world.

 

[newworld666]

Anyone has any idea why cradle to grave is a track the usually clips?

Just a question of juice available for low and ultra low frequencies.. for low sensitivity headphones and low impedence..

My Heddphone and Stealth are both clipping with all my amps with less than 2x2W at 32 or 20 ohms

With higher sensitivity IEM for this track my Sennheiser IE900 is clipping too with a qudelix 5K and not clipping with the Fiio M17 and iFi Go Blu at a realistic level.

 

[Jimthecoffeeguy]

While I don't agree with many of his points, when it comes to routers and switches it's not their ability to transfer the data accurately that's the issue... it's their ability to transfer electrical noise along with the data. This electrical noise will travel down ethernet cables and while it doesn't alter. or impact the data, when it reaches a streamer, it can effect audio sound quality at that point. When changing standard power supplies to LPS's etc, they act as a filter and will add/remove certain noise which results in a difference in sound.

This is why using fibre optics as a cable for your network can stop the transfer of RF noise from one device to another. RF noise will result in a brighter sound, slightly wider sound stage and increase noise floor. This might be preferable to some... it's a preference thing. Each to their own.

That makes more sense. But still it should be a very light amount of noise, depending on devices. High end/commercial switching gear should have very low noise iirc.

Again for home use it primarily comes down to poor receiving device design (in this idiots opinion) especially if it's designed for high end audio and can't reject noise. I mean c'mon, that's like a designing a boat but not sealing the hull watertight right???

 

[Toonartist]

Not sure about poor design. I've noticed most streamers, DACs reveal it but some just more than others. I would add... it's certainly a case of diminishing returns... the final bit of tuning.... as in, it should sound great beforehand and it's just the cherry on top.

 

[801evan]

Just a question of juice available for low and ultra low frequencies.. for low sensitivity headphones and low impedence..

My Heddphone and Stealth are both clipping with all my amps with less than 2x2W at 32 or 20 ohms

With higher sensitivity IEM for this track my Sennheiser IE900 is clipping too with a qudelix 5K and not clipping with the Fiio M17 and iFi Go Blu at a realistic level.

It doesn't clip on what amps? So u get to play it louder?

 

[Jimthecoffeeguy]

.... exactly. I'll leave it to the lurkers to decide on listening to people who are clipping cradle to grave vs the one that doesn't and being condemned to have outrageous claims.
I didn't expect you to be clipping it but to have a stance where yours is clipping and mine isnt so mine is wrong is definitely the odd toxic behavior of the commenters here for the past few days. Instead of moving forward, you wanna drag ppl to your world.

If your not clipping, your likely doing it wrong dude.
You keep getting louder until it clips or distorts. If it dosent clip or distort and your amp is on MAX volume then it's another story mabey.

Whats your amp/dac again, and what % vole are you getting up to?

Facts aren't toxic btw.
But I do apoplogise to you for being a smartass a couple of times if it upset you at all

 

[Jimthecoffeeguy]

Not sure about poor design. I've noticed most streamers, DACs reveal it but some just more than others. I would add... it's certainly a case of diminishing returns... the final bit of tuning.... as in, it should sound great beforehand and it's just the cherry on top.

Like I said I'm an idiot so could be wrong. I don't know much about streamers as I didn't go down that path so can't comment enough to be productive.
I wanted max quality for $ so went basic wires in/wires out bench station.

 

[801evan]

If your not clipping, your likely doing it wrong dude.
You keep getting louder until it clips or distorts. If it dosent clip or distort and your amp is on MAX volume then it's another story mabey.

Whats your amp/dac again, and what % vole are you getting up to?

Facts aren't toxic btw.
But I do apoplogise to you for being a smartass a couple of times if it upset you at all

Not upset at all but I've seen such behavior directed at other people who are giving the right advice but getting at all too many times for years. And like I said, only the skeptics will lose in this game and be stuck in mid-fi land convinced with their own convictions.

I'll wait for others to respond to the cradle to grave question before I respond to you

 

[newworld666]

It doesn't clip on what amps? So u get to play it louder?

A&K Kann Alpha, Centrance M8V2, Xduoo XD-05, iFi MQ1S-2.5mm and former version with 4.4.
Volume level is with all not the issue .. while clipping is !!!

Amps with no clipping issue are Monolith Thx887, Less BX2+, M17(DC 12V enhanced mode only)..
I am waiting for the next Centrance Ampersand which should be optimized for low impedance Headphones and low sensitivity which needs a lot of juice

 

[801evan]

A&K Kann Alpha, Centrance M8V2, Xduoo XD-05, iFi MQ1S-2.5mm and former version with 4.4.
Volume level is with all not the issue .. while clipping is !!!

Amps with no clipping issue are Monolith Thx887, Less BX2+, M17(DC 12V enhanced mode only)..

Wow and bx2 is a portable and no clipping. Stealth on the bx2, m17 and thx887 wont clip?

On the others, does it clip on the bass peaks or the strings part?