Dan Clark Audio Stealth Review, Interview, Measurements

Aug 31, 2021 at 3:00 PM Post #781 of 6,136
A lot of the "anti EQ" stigma in audiophilia, especially in speakerland, is a by product of a different era. Some of the old analog EQ's did introduce various distortions and artifacts, or reduced overall transparency.

New EQ's, properly designed, both analog and especially digital, are free of these problems (if used correctly) but the stigma remains.

At the end of the day, if you like EQ, use it. If you don't, don't use it. Not worth getting into arguments about. Simple enough : )
 
Aug 31, 2021 at 3:04 PM Post #782 of 6,136
When I started off around 15 years ago in the music hobby, my equipment was not great. There was tons of noise and jitter in my stereo system. I remember then that I appreciated equalizing more back then. Today I have world-class electronics with ultra low noise power supplies and a Mutec Rer.10 SE-120 clock for the lowest possible jitter. Also, todays headphones are just so so improved over what was available 15 years ago. I even have an isolation transformer which reduces noise by 165dcb which I did not have until a few years ago. With todays components which filter out so so much noise and minimize jitter to such low levels, equalizing to my ears (not technical proof) degrades sound and harms ultimate transparency even if the headphones have an inaccurate FR graph. Perhaps I do not know how to equalize properly???

Just sharing my point of view in my experience. To each his own....
 
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Aug 31, 2021 at 3:11 PM Post #783 of 6,136
By the way, I am not the only one who feels this way. It is a well excepted concept among many many audiophiles that equalizing sounds wrong.

That's the key issue with that argument though-- that it's a preconceived bias among audiophiles Audiophilia is a hobby built upon people spending extravagant amounts of money on hardware to create obscure and inefficient means of achieving their personal 'desired' sound.

If we define 'pure' as in faithful reproduction, then frequency response is the number one determining factor in the sound of 'pure'. No other quantifiable sound quality comes close.
 
Aug 31, 2021 at 4:08 PM Post #784 of 6,136
What does impure sound, sound like ?
Naughty.

When I started off around 15 years ago in the music hobby, my equipment was not great. There was tons of noise and jitter in my stereo system. I remember then that I appreciated equalizing more back then. Today I have world-class electronics with ultra low noise power supplies and a Mutec Rer.10 SE-120 clock for the lowest possible jitter. Also, todays headphones are just so so improved over what was available 15 years ago. I even have an isolation transformer which reduces noise by 165dcb which I did not have until a few years ago. With todays components which filter out so so much noise and minimize jitter to such low levels, equalizing to my ears (not technical proof) degrades sound and harms ultimate transparency even if the headphones have an inaccurate FR graph. Perhaps I do not know how to equalize properly???

Just sharing my point of view in my experience. To each his own....
I'm curious whether you would say this for any form of EQ or just for digital EQ. Also how are you Integrating the REF10 (I think that's what you mean) into your system? I have the original REF10 (not the SE120 version you have), and used it for a bit with a MUTEC MC-3+ USB feeding my DAC. While it seemed to have a positive effect on sound stage depth, I also had a slight harshness in my system that I found fatiguing. As it turns out, the MC-3+ USB is only bit perfect with SPDIF in (not USB) and the internal clock. Otherwise it resamples the signal (without changing the sample rate), which shows up as ringing artifacts. Not using the REF10 fixed that, though I'd love to find a way to put it to use again.
But the point is if you use an MC-3+ USB with the USB input, an external clock, a digital EQ before it and an oversampling DAC, you're chaining four digital filters that are all just an approximation of what might be ideal. Maybe a fifth one if your OS is resampling the contents as well, though you have probably taken care of that. I would imagine this can cause lots of problems. I should try to record the resampled output, feed it back in, repeat, to see whether it gets worse and worse with each iteration, that would be interesting.
I have also heard that digital EQ can cause group delay and other issues. And I suppose an analog equalizer has similar issues, using the same kind of parts that a crossover has, thus messing with the phase.
I'm far from an expert on EQ, but it's definitely clear that some issues are acknowledged (FIR is a keyword here).

So in general, if I can get away without EQ, I prefer it, even just as a practical matter. I had a need for more bass with the ATH-M50x, but my phone at the time didn't have enough power, and lowered everything other than the bass when I tried to boost it, making it not loud enough. Trying to EQ the headphones on my work laptop with virtual sound cards led to crashes and other bugs where suddenly the sound became choppy. That's why I got my first headphone amp, the Sound Blaster E5, with built-in EQ. That was also able to crash the Mac, and required special drivers/apps to use. And it's a bit annoying for commuting.
Other dongle DACs can cause issues when you use them with USB Audio Player Pro and then want to listen to a YouTube video. I have unintentionally entertained other people on the subway this way, when the video was played through the phone's speakers instead.

With the Focal Listen, the bass was good as is and it was more efficient - no more need for EQ.

Recently I tested the SMSL AD18, a super cheap integrated speaker amp / do-it-all. With my old Yamaha satellites, playing music was just a bit too spicy, so lowering the treble by just 1 dB helped. Conversely, the NHT C1 was a bit too dark and benefited from a +1 dB treble boost. I admit it was nice to have that option readily available. It did seem to impact resolution, but the unpleasant frequency response was more annoying.

But that's the complete story of my need for EQ. If I wanted to EQ my main system, I wouldn't use the Lokius - it's not balanced end to end, which worries me, but it also doesn't have a remote, making it far less interesting for speaker use.
I'd be more tempted to use an all digital DSP between my TOSLINK switch and the MC-3+ USB (so it works for all my sources), but the miniDSP ones that I looked at only work at 96 kHz internally, making them less optimal for the occasional 192 kHz material. I could adjust them from the couch via USB, though.
I gave my parents a nanoDIGI as a dialog enhancer when they watch TV. I suspect better speakers wouldn't need that, but they were grateful.

So a setup in which I don't need to EQ is definitely a welcome simplification, but I have not fully closed that chapter.
 
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Aug 31, 2021 at 4:12 PM Post #785 of 6,136
By the way, if equalizing can solve all frequency discrepancies, and if proper FR is the most important factor in enjoying quality music, why are we all considering spending $4,000 on a Stealth? Theoretically, shouldn't we be able to make most headphones sound at least 95% if not more the same with proper equalizing? Bass, dynamics, soundstage, impact, and maybe even resolution to some degree can all be manipulated by equalizers so why not just buy a much less expensive headphone and equalize every aspect of the sound to the point we like it?

Also- Dan Clark stresses in their advertising these features- "dynamics", "smoothness", "bass response", a "frequency curve which matches the Harmon Target", etc.....

Why does all this matter when we can equalize to obtain the same results? Perhaps it matters because equalizing does not do nearly as good of a job at making beautiful music as when the headphones themselves do that job?
 
Aug 31, 2021 at 4:20 PM Post #787 of 6,136
I don’t EQ but, I’m not oppose to the idea if components (transducers for the most part) are horribly off target. And if audio signal originated in digital domain. But I would rather not introduce any AD/DA conversion into my analog/vinyl audio chain. Maybe a quality analog EQ? But those cost quite a bit. We’re talking couple grand (at least). “Less is more” served me well for many years and I do adhere to that simplistic philosophy.
 
Aug 31, 2021 at 4:25 PM Post #788 of 6,136
Doesn't recodridng and mixing process EQ nearly all the records we hear?
By the way, if equalizing can solve all frequency discrepancies, and if proper FR is the most important factor in enjoying quality music, why are we all considering spending $4,000 on a Stealth?

EQ in a studio to tailor the sound of an album is different from EQ trying to tune out standing waves or resonances which are position dependent and vary by listener. That's just one reason EQ settings over 5K are YMMV and are not a panacea. EQ isn't an ideal way to address standing waves and it also can't deal with resonances.

As I think I made clear in the video hearing a headphone TUNED to the curve with standing wave and resonance remediation is not the same as a headphone that's been EQd.
 
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Aug 31, 2021 at 4:32 PM Post #789 of 6,136
EQ in a studio to tailor the sound of an album is different from EQ trying to tune out standing waves or resonances which are position dependent and vary by listener. That's just one reason EQ settings over 5K are YMMV and are not a panacea. EQ isn't an ideal way to address standing waves and it also can't deal with resonances.

As I think I made clear in the video hearing a headphone TUNED to the curve with standing wave and resonance remediation is not the same as a headphone that's been EQd.
I rest my case.........
 
Aug 31, 2021 at 4:40 PM Post #790 of 6,136
could someone that has the Stealth listen to this demo of Dolby Atmos with a configuration of 15.1.8 surround... this particular demo is created with a set of 24 Genelec 8351b speakers on a linearized HD800...... I am more curious about how the Stealth will isolate the 24 speakers into their respective locations and how easily it is or not to discern the 24 different speaker locations using the Stealth....
https://3dsoundshop.com/genelec-1518/

 
Aug 31, 2021 at 4:49 PM Post #791 of 6,136
Alright, so I got mine the other day and have only been able to listen for an hour or two.

Here are some basic impressions:

Build

Extremely well built. I have had the opportunity to demo some other flagships (Focal / Audeze / others at lower price brackets) and these immediately feel better built. The headband adjustment is a pleasure to use. The machined metal is beautiful. The pads feel super premium, somehow. Much nicer than the Aeon pads.


Comfort

Clamp force is a bit less than the Aeons. If I don't find the right spot on my head, they have a tendency to slip forward or back when I tilt my head. However, it is pretty easy to find someplace in the middle where this does not happen. I think it strikes a good balance as the Aeons felt a bit too clampy after several hours. The pads provide great cushioning for me and the opening is pretty massive. (Can easily fit 4 knuckles)


Sound

Way too early to talk much about this but I will say that the FR is exceptionally agreeable straight out of the box for me. I listen to a lot of classic rock, metal, new age, and jazz.


Soundstage / Imaging

Yea, so far I had a pretty similar experience to Andrew from headphones.com. Was not expecting how open these sound.


Isolation

These provide pretty great isolation. Maybe a tiny bit less than the A2C. However, I do not get that same feeling of pressure that I typically get from other closed back headphones. Also, I think these leak a bit more sound than the A2C.


Will be a while before I can really sit down with these as I am in the middle of a big move but I'll report back with more impressions at some point.

EDIT: Listening through an RME ADI-2
 
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Aug 31, 2021 at 4:51 PM Post #792 of 6,136
I rest my case.........
He is making a case about EQ interacting with standing waves and resonances specifically. That is not the same as claiming that EQ automatically degrades sound.
But I can see that you want to hate EQ for the sake of hating EQ so I will stop trying to have a meaningful conversation.
 
Aug 31, 2021 at 4:55 PM Post #793 of 6,136
I rest my case.........

The way I understand it is he is making a distinction between why just eq'ing any headphone to Harmon (as you suggested and which I do) is not equivalent to this headphone, because this headphone has dampening and meta materiel to address the standing waves and resonance and is already matched to Harmon.

So If your headphone has resonance stock it will have it with EQ too. Vs not having his dampening and meta-material.
 
Aug 31, 2021 at 5:02 PM Post #794 of 6,136
He is making a case about EQ interacting with standing waves and resonances specifically. That is not the same as claiming that EQ automatically degrades sound.
But I can see that you want to hate EQ for the sake of hating EQ so I will stop trying to have a meaningful conversation.

"As I think I made clear in the video hearing a headphone TUNED to the curve with standing wave and resonance remediation is not the same as a headphone that's been EQed."

I assume that Mr. Clarks means that his headphone which is tuned to a certain frequency does not sound the same as one which has been equalized to that same frequency. I would guess that the equalized version sounds worse- but you are correct in that he did not literally say that.

Again, if equalizing can PROPERLY fix all frequency faults, why do we all care about the frequency response of our headphones? I suggest- perhaps incorrectly,- because it doesn't sound as good as when the headphone itself gets the frequency correct. I am pretty confident that Mr. Clark is saying this as well. And yes I agree, he is not literally saying that equalizing degrades sound, only that a properly tuned headphone is better than an EQed version.

I'm actually jealous of those who think that equalizing sounds good because you guys don't have to spend so much on great headphones. So- I do not hate equalizing; I just wish my ears accepted it.....
 
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Aug 31, 2021 at 5:13 PM Post #795 of 6,136
hate to throw in another variable .... but here goes... you take a single pair of headphones... and lets say its the Stealth and lets say it is tuned to perfection.... now take two different people... one person has perfect hearing and the other person is slightly off in the high freq range.... so the first person is pleased with how that set of headphones sounds to HIS ears... and the next person needs to EQ slightly to bring the high freq range up a bit.... now, to each person they sound the same... one didn't EQ and the other did EQ... everyone hears a bit differently...
 

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