[iamoneagain]

My bad. I got confused with the Feliks Envy which is the 300B amp. I was demoing the Expanse with that amp instead of the WA23. I'm surprised that the WA23 does justice to the Expanse as well . Must be Woo's output transformer construction and the coupling caps utilizing the 2A3's in ways that it brings out the musicality out of that tube

Strange thing is I found the Expanse sounded better with the WA23 than the WA33. Looks like the 33 uses same tubes, just has more of them and more power. The WA23 had more warmth. They were both hooked up to the same source, DSC Lina streamer/dac at CanJam.

 

[theveterans]

Strange thing is I found the Expanse sounded better with the WA23 than the WA33. Looks like the 33 uses same tubes, just has more of them and more power. The WA23 had more warmth. They were both hooked up to the same source, DSC Lina streamer/dac at CanJam.

Not strange at all. Based on the WA33 impressions, Woo most likely designed it to extract the most amount of detail at with less bloom from the tubes

Push pull balanced topology is a lot more complex than SET topology and would definitely sound different from each other

 

[iamoneagain]

Not strange at all. Based on the WA33 impressions, Woo most likely designed it to extract the most amount of detail at with less bloom from the tubes

Push pull balanced topology is a lot more complex than SET topology and would definitely sound different from each other

They did mention the different tuning. The WA33 was cleaner sounding but much preferred the bloom of the WA23.

 

[Currawong]

Speaking of the speaker box, am I correct in my assumption that it lowers the output impedance of the amp? It has both resistors in parallel (lowers) and in series (increases) so I'm not sure without knowing the exact resistances.

No, it lowers the output voltage. The output impedance of a speaker amp has to be near zero to begin with, since it deals with 4 Ohm or above loads. The gain will be way too high for headphones though. I get around not using a box by using a source with a volume control with my amp.

 

[MRHiFiReviews]

DCA Expanse vs. Audeze LCD-5 vs. Meze Elite Planar Magnetic Flagship Headphone Showdown!

 

[ericx85]

Expanse keeps getting better as the days go on. Surprisingly I think I'm enjoying them more on the Topping A90D than on my soloist GT. For my Stealth and Meze Elites I like them on the Soloist a lot more.

 

[LeMat]

I've never listened to any DCA headphone and am trying to gauge the level of bass of the Expanse (or the Stealth). From my previous experiences, the bass had either been lacking (HD800, T1) or was "right". Then I tried the Empyrean and realized that "too much" was also an option! (+ it was bloated..). From a bass perspective, my current reference is the Heddphone. Not sure if anybody got a chance to compare the 2. Someone in this thread was also commenting on the slam of Stellia and I can relate. Something the Heddphone is not doing as well. Some Focal headphones have real thump, kick hard, making you feel the bass. Maybe something that only dynamic drivers can achieve?

 

[iamoneagain]

I've never listened to any DCA headphone and am trying to gauge the level of bass of the Expanse (or the Stealth). From my previous experiences, the bass had either been lacking (HD800, T1) or was "right". Then I tried the Empyrean and realized that "too much" was also an option! (+ it was bloated..). From a bass perspective, my current reference is the Heddphone. Not sure if anybody got a chance to compare the 2. Someone in this thread was also commenting on the slam of Stellia and I can relate. Something the Heddphone is not doing as well. Some Focal headphones have real thump, kick hard, making you feel the bass. Maybe something that only dynamic drivers can achieve?

You can feel the bass with the Expanse. They do have punch, great bass texture and bass quality and quantity. I did a lot of back and forth with the original Utopia when I had them and only thought the Utopia had more punch until and actually compared. Now that the Utopia is gone, I only sometimes think certain tracks may of had more with the Utopia but who knows. I am certain that I am hearing more detail and clarity with the Expanse than the Utopia. It’s not a basshead headphone but leans on the warm side and definitely has punch when called for.

Maybe not quite like the Stealth but the Expanse still needs a seal. You can wear glasses and won’t change sound but if you just slightly lift the pad from you head, all the bass goes with it. I think the Utopia didn’t matter since completely open. But I haven’t any issues with the seal. I can move my jaw around and doesn’t break it.

 

[dmagnan]

You can feel the bass with the Expanse. They do have punch, great bass texture and bass quality and quantity. I did a lot of back and forth with the original Utopia when I had them and only thought the Utopia had more punch until and actually compared. Now that the Utopia is gone, I only sometimes think certain tracks may of had more with the Utopia but who knows. I am certain that I am hearing more detail and clarity with the Expanse than the Utopia. It’s not a basshead headphone but leans on the warm side and definitely has punch when called for.

Maybe not quite like the Stealth but the Expanse still needs a seal. You can wear glasses and won’t change sound but if you just slightly lift the pad from you head, all the bass goes with it. I think the Utopia didn’t matter since completely open. But I haven’t any issues with the seal. I can move my jaw around and doesn’t break it.

My experience is different in this area. I've decided that my Expanse is a study in engineering tradeoffs particularly in the bass, at least with my system. The musicality, midrange and treble accuracy, resolution and overall holographic imaging capability is fantastic, a hit out of the park, but these 'phones with my system lack the midbass to low bass solidity and visceral slam and "rumble" that my heavily EQ'd air motion transformer (Heil driver) Monoprice AMTs have in spades (my previous favorite headphones). I tried using a moderate (3-4 dB) EQ boost below 60 Hz, but it only improved things a little, at the cost of considerably reduced upper midrange and treble clarity. Not worth it.

As far as I can tell, I'm getting a good seal with negligible leakage, and don't wear glasses while I'm listening.

Overall, however, I still much prefer the Expanse because of its overwhelming virtues. Overall, much or at least a good part of the apparent bass weakness I decided is actually realistic true to life bass versus the unnatural but pleasantly euphonic rumble I am used to. Looking at the big picture the Expanse is very superior to the AMT, HE1000se, HD800S, and according to memory several other high end phones I have previously had in my system (including the Abyss Phi TC, ZMF Verite Closed, LSA HP-1, and Heddphone), at least with my system and my ears. The type of music I listen to is mostly classical with some jazz, and older pop (Sinatra, Cole, Krall, Ronstadt, etc.). I am also a lover of Wurlitzer theater organ recordings, with a lot of bass.

System configuration: Galaxy S4 tablet source with UAPP audiophile USB app and Toneboosters parametric EQ, to Denafrips Iris DDC via Shunyata Omega USB cable, Iris DDC to Denafrips Terminator II DAC via Crystal Cable I2S HDMI cable, Terminator DAC to Sparkos Labs Aries headphone amplifier via Magnan Type Vi cables; Aries amp to headphones via Cardas Clear Beyond cable, Dan Clark Audio Expanse, Monoprice AMT, HE1000se, and HD800S headphones. Foundation Research and Furutech Flux-50 power conditioners.

 

[LeMat]

My experience is different in this area. I've decided that my Expanse is a study in engineering tradeoffs particularly in the bass, at least with my system. The musicality, midrange and treble accuracy, resolution and overall holographic imaging capability is fantastic, a hit out of the park, but these 'phones with my system lack the midbass to low bass solidity and visceral slam and "rumble" that my heavily EQ'd air motion transformer (Heil driver) Monoprice AMTs have in spades (my previous favorite headphones). I tried using a moderate (3-4 dB) EQ boost below 60 Hz, but it only improved things a little, at the cost of considerably reduced upper midrange and treble clarity. Not worth it.

As far as I can tell, I'm getting a good seal with negligible leakage, and don't wear glasses while I'm listening.

Overall, however, I still much prefer the Expanse because of its overwhelming virtues. Overall, much or at least a good part of the apparent bass weakness I decided is actually realistic true to life bass versus the unnatural but pleasantly euphonic rumble I am used to. Looking at the big picture the Expanse is very superior to the AMT, HE1000se, HD800S, and according to memory several other high end phones I have previously had in my system (including the Abyss Phi TC, ZMF Verite Closed, and Heddphone, at least with my system and my ears. The type of music I listen to is mostly classical with some jazz, and older pop (Sinatra, Cole, Krall, Ronstadt, etc.). I am also a lover of Wurlitzer theater organ recordings, with a lot of bass.

System configuration: Galaxy S4 tablet source with UAPP audiophile USB app and Toneboosters parametric EQ, to Denafrips Iris DDC via Shunyata Omega USB cable, Iris DDC to Denafrips Terminator II DAC via Crystal Cable I2S HDMI cable, Terminator DAC to Sparkos Labs Aries headphone amplifier via Magnan Type Vi cables; Dan Clark Audio Expanse, Monoprice AMT, and HD800S headphones. Foundation Research and Furutech Flux-50 power conditioners.

I didn't know about these Monoprice AMT's... Hedd has some competition! Interesting contrast with the comment on the Stellia... and how the Expanse shines over a list of very fine headphones.

 

[Qna89]

Has anyone tried to drive Expanse directly from RME Adi 2 DAC (non pro version)? Is it enough to drive them properly?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Has anyone tried to drive Expanse directly from RME Adi 2 DAC (non pro version)? Is it enough to drive them properly?

Not yet, but i plan to. As someone explained to me here the RME ADI-2 DAC should be able to achieve 113 dB @400Hz and 116dB @100 Hz and below with the Expanse, which is enough for 99.99% of my needs. It should be enough for most occasions, but probably not enough to cover every possible scenario.

 

[iamoneagain]

My experience is different in this area. I've decided that my Expanse is a study in engineering tradeoffs particularly in the bass, at least with my system. The musicality, midrange and treble accuracy, resolution and overall holographic imaging capability is fantastic, a hit out of the park, but these 'phones with my system lack the midbass to low bass solidity and visceral slam and "rumble" that my heavily EQ'd air motion transformer (Heil driver) Monoprice AMTs have in spades (my previous favorite headphones). I tried using a moderate (3-4 dB) EQ boost below 60 Hz, but it only improved things a little, at the cost of considerably reduced upper midrange and treble clarity. Not worth it.

As far as I can tell, I'm getting a good seal with negligible leakage, and don't wear glasses while I'm listening.

Overall, however, I still much prefer the Expanse because of its overwhelming virtues. Overall, much or at least a good part of the apparent bass weakness I decided is actually realistic true to life bass versus the unnatural but pleasantly euphonic rumble I am used to. Looking at the big picture the Expanse is very superior to the AMT, HE1000se, HD800S, and according to memory several other high end phones I have previously had in my system (including the Abyss Phi TC, ZMF Verite Closed, and Heddphone), at least with my system and my ears. The type of music I listen to is mostly classical with some jazz, and older pop (Sinatra, Cole, Krall, Ronstadt, etc.). I am also a lover of Wurlitzer theater organ recordings, with a lot of bass.

System configuration: Galaxy S4 tablet source with UAPP audiophile USB app and Toneboosters parametric EQ, to Denafrips Iris DDC via Shunyata Omega USB cable, Iris DDC to Denafrips Terminator II DAC via Crystal Cable I2S HDMI cable, Terminator DAC to Sparkos Labs Aries headphone amplifier via Magnan Type Vi cables; Aries amp to headphones via Cardas Clear Beyond cable, Dan Clark Audio Expanse, Monoprice AMT, HE1000se, and HD800S headphones. Foundation Research and Furutech Flux-50 power conditioners.

I’m surprised that I get great slam. So the Naim HE system was actually the best performer for the original Utopia. Had the best bass texture, quantity, and slam. At CanJam, a lot of systems with the Expanse failed in the bass department while other headphones on same system sounded great. The Expanse on the Woo WA23 seemed to have more bass than I remember the Utopia ever having. Didn’t try a Utopia on that system.

I have no idea why some systems do better with slam than others. Don’t think the Naim HE is more powerful than some but seems have control and slam at only 60% of full power. I guess it will come down to recommendations from others on what works best. But on the wrong system, I think I’d either look for different headphones or change my system out if keeping the Expanse. With bass and slam, plus its resolution power, it’s quite amazing. Just shocking that the dynamics stay in place even at low listening levels.

 

[jlbrach]

I am listening to my expanse through my CFA3 and it is a fantastic combo...

 

[dmagnan]

Not yet, but i plan to. As someone explained to me here the RME ADI-2 DAC should be able to achieve 113 dB @400Hz and 116dB @100 Hz and below with the Expanse, which is enough for 99.99% of my needs. It should be enough for most occasions, but probably not enough to cover every possible scenario.

However, as indicated earlier in this blog discussion, the issue seems to be complicated. Power output is apparently only moderately correlated to audiophile audio performance, especially in the bass range. Different amps with similar power ratings apparently can sound greatly different in this bass area, where some of the factors causing the phenomenon are very unclear.

Anyway, a simple calculation of SPL output at max power given the headphone sensitivity, though it may indicate plenty of headroom, may not correlate with listening tests, especially for the quality of the bass range. Known engineering factors like damping factor (related to output impedance), slew rate, bandwidth and extension in the bass range, etc. don' t explain these observations. Some of the differences are observed while playing at only moderate levels, so it doesn't seem to be due to behavior of the amp at or near clipping at bass frequencies. And this last observation technically rules out the bass sonic differences being due to differences in max power output, since the lower power amp is listened to at levels considerably below clipping at any frequency, a power region in which the amplifier performance is basically at an optimum for audio performance.

For instance, my Sparkos Labs Aries headphone amp is rated at 2.8w into 32 ohms, which should enable it to output considerably more, even more earsplitting, SPLs than even the RME you are describing (1.5w). My aries has an output impedance of 0.1 ohms, which should give it a very high bass damping factor. But I observe a noticeably anemic bass with the Expanse.

The apparently unpredictable differences in sonics in the bass range observed between different amps means that just maybe, the RME will have the same problem with the bass as my system, or maybe not. We just can't be sure. The only way to be sure is to actually try out the equipment, often hard or impossible to arrange.