Jun 7, 2024 at 12:58 PM Post #1,996 of 2,802
Db is not linear scale.
I know, thanks, I work in that field accidentally, but I'm not an electronic engineer obviously :wink:

I was not referring to dB itself but to the underlying power scaling which is most likely linear and not log, because you can hear the clicks of the solid state amplifier units switching output levels exactly every 6 dB on the volume wheel... which seems not logarithmic to me. 🤷‍♂️
 
Jun 7, 2024 at 1:16 PM Post #1,997 of 2,802
I know, thanks, I work in that field accidentally, but I'm not an electronic engineer obviously :wink:

I was not referring to dB itself but to the underlying power scaling which is most likely linear and not log, because you can hear the clicks of the solid state amplifier units switching output levels exactly every 6 dB on the volume wheel... which seems not logarithmic to me. 🤷‍♂️
As long as the manufacturer respects the dB definition for power, which is dB = 10 x log10 (W1/W2) and 0 dB of volume gives amplifier's max power, -14 dB implies that W1 is equal to W2/25.11, so if W2 = 7,2W, then W1 is equal to 287 mW.
 
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Jun 7, 2024 at 2:18 PM Post #1,998 of 2,802
I haven't got a horse in this race as I'm not an E3 owner but I do think that two songs is not enough to be able to give an opinion either way. Perhaps your expectations were too high given the hype that the E3 has generated especially with your current headphones in your signature being all dynamic drivers. Dynamic drivers can be more exciting, especially with closed backs because of the constraints and tuning of individual models. I've also found that planars and something of a different beast than dynamics.

We all, more likely than not, have favourite tracks that we use for auditions. Some will show up the strengths of a particular model of headphone others may surprise you with a lack of what your looking for in that model. That's why, to me, it's important to vary your music when auditioning. I certainly have whole albums that I prefer listening to on either the planars or dynamics.

If you can get a home loan with the E3s then that is going to give you a true impression of them one way or the other. I've rejected two pair of headphones in the last few months, one of which had glowing reviews in the press yet I didn't like one of them one little bit and that was the Focal Radiance. Expectations with headphones, or any bit of kit to be honest, can work against you on a very quick audition because the grey matter needs to have time to adjust to the new sound.

As for power everyone will have a favourite amp, some will give good synergy some will not but again that personal. I'm using a Lehmann Linear, a design which is decades old. It's power and neutrality has never failed to power anything I've thrown at it.
I agree, I was definitely very hyped to hear the E3 after reading everything about it. It is a different flavour to my existing headphones for sure since everything I have is Dynamic. And yes, 2 songs is definitely not enough time to really formulate an opinion. However, I listened to the DCA Expanse, the Final Audio D8000 Pro, Focal Utopia 2022 (dynamic I know) and was immediately hooked by them just from the very first song. They're more expensive (not that price matters per se), I know, but even the Meze 109 Pro hooked me right away and that's about half the price.

Again... The E3 is amazing for sure, better than anything I own. Too expensive for me at this time. And even then, I'm not sure my amp or dac would be able to properly drive it.
 
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Jun 7, 2024 at 2:19 PM Post #1,999 of 2,802
As long as the manufacturer respects the dB definition for power, which is dB = 10 x log10 (W1/W2) and 0 dB of volume gives amplifier's max power, -14 dB implies that W1 is equal to W2/25.11, so if W2 = 7,2W, then W1 is equal to 287 mW.
Thanks for the explanation! Makes sense somehow.
...but what's the value of 25.11 again?
Sorry, just want to learn a bit^^
 
Jun 7, 2024 at 2:37 PM Post #2,000 of 2,802
Thanks for the explanation! Makes sense somehow.
...but what's the value of 25.11 again?
Sorry, just want to learn a bit^^
Sorry for my bad writing. Writing by hand on the iPad is really annoying.
 

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Jun 7, 2024 at 3:57 PM Post #2,002 of 2,802
Is that a redbull shot? ;)


With so many models in munich that didn't convince my ear🙈,

NOMAX

P.S i needed something stronger 😉
 
Jun 7, 2024 at 4:14 PM Post #2,004 of 2,802
The day DCA manages to make some sort of a Stealth/E3 that will be easy to drive on any dap and a little more petite...not so bulky
I'll open a bottle of the best 👍👍

NOMAX
 
Jun 7, 2024 at 6:13 PM Post #2,005 of 2,802
So, now the next head scratcher with the E3...

How can it be that with my 7 Watt Topping DX9 I have to go between -45 to -15 dB to reach a medium to comfortably loud enough playback, but with my iBasso DX260, which has max. 1 Watt it is exactly the same region, 50-80 of 100... and it sounds definitely nice, not thin or anything... not much different in terms of loudness and dynamics. ...sorry, I don't get it. Does anyone have an explanation that a 1 Watt device is on par with output power compared to a 7 Watt device?
 
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Jun 7, 2024 at 6:17 PM Post #2,006 of 2,802
So, now the next head scratcher with the E3...

How can it be that with my 7 Watt Topping DX9 I have to go between -45 to -15 dB to reach a medium to comfortably loud enough playback, but with my iBasso DX260, which has max. 1 Watt it is exactly the same region, 50-80 of 100... and it sounds definitely nice, not thin or anything... not much different in terms of loudness and dynamics. ...sorry, I don't get it. Does anyone have an explanation that a 1 Watt device is on par with output power compared to a 7 Watt device?
Power != volume\loudness.

Some devices has higher gain so you dont have to turn the volume up as much. But it doesnt mean they have more power. Or better "driving" ability
 
Jun 7, 2024 at 6:19 PM Post #2,007 of 2,802
Power != volume\loudness.

Some devices has higher gain so you dont have to turn the volume up as much. But it doesnt mean they have more power. Or better "driving" ability
I'm with both devices on high gain, but in the end I'm happy that my DX260 can drive the E3 absolutely sufficiently.

And otherwise, the E3 are really wonderful cans, I'll keep them for a while.
 
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Jun 7, 2024 at 6:30 PM Post #2,008 of 2,802
I'm with both devices on high gain, but in the end I'm happy that my DX260 can drive the E3 absolutely sufficiently.
But its not the same value. High gain means high gain for particular device. But actual gain value could be different and definitely is different for both devices.
 
Jun 8, 2024 at 6:34 AM Post #2,009 of 2,802
So, now the next head scratcher with the E3...

How can it be that with my 7 Watt Topping DX9 I have to go between -45 to -15 dB to reach a medium to comfortably loud enough playback, but with my iBasso DX260, which has max. 1 Watt it is exactly the same region, 50-80 of 100... and it sounds definitely nice, not thin or anything... not much different in terms of loudness and dynamics. ...sorry, I don't get it. Does anyone have an explanation that a 1 Watt device is on par with output power compared to a 7 Watt device?
You need to measure output voltage at a given volume to know what their DB scale actually means. E.g. find 1v on each and you will have comparable volume. Some manufacturers write in their manual what certain output volumes equate to, but most only give you maximum of what the amp can do (sometimes more than the amp can do).

Every manufacturer is free to use whatever scale they want on their volume control so you could in theory have 2 amps that are otherwise identical where one is 1w at -16db and the other is 1w at +6db. Of course having 1w at -50db will impress some people into thinking the -50db amp is much more powerful, but you would then lose usable volume range with high sensitivity gear.
 
Jun 10, 2024 at 8:52 AM Post #2,010 of 2,802
The day DCA manages to make some sort of a Stealth/E3 that will be easy to drive on any dap and a little more petite...not so bulky
I'll open a bottle of the best 👍👍

NOMAX
They are easy to drive but the low distortion is demanding of one's chain so it's really just exposing that DAPs aren't clean enough of a transport and amp.
 
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