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Damping Mechanical Energy Distortion of STAX and other phones with SORBOTHANE and other materials.

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  1. edstrelow Contributor
    I never noticed this. My nonself-stick 1/2 inch has plastic film on both sides. Yours may have not had it on both sides, which is why one side is dull. I don't think it matters which side you glue.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  2. edstrelow Contributor
    The Sorbothane site suggests cleaning whatever side you intend to glue with dish soap or alcohol first. Obviously it needs to be dry before you glue it.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  3. DangerClose
    My non-stick sheet has plastic on both sides.

    I assume the dull side would stick better, though maybe the shiny side would transfer the vibrations better. Since the most annoying part of Sorbothane has been keeping it stuck on, I'll go with the dull side and will clean it good with the alcohol while trying a different adhesive. I didn't alcohol it before since the pieces were fresh from the peeled plastic. They seemed solid on there, but only lasted a few months if that.

    Apparently, most glues and adhesives can be very particular about working on hard plastics of various kinds, such as what headphone baffles are usually made out of, so that makes this twice as difficult since the glue/adhesive used has to work on both kinds of materials. And then there's people on here who say don't use Super/Krazy Glue because it doesn't transfer the vibrations well, so I'm avoiding using that, for now.
  4. edstrelow Contributor
    Sorbothane recommends an industrial glue, Lord 7650 which I have found to be very good on 1/2 inch sorb which I cannot find in self-stick. http://www.sorbothane.com/Data/Sites/31/pdfs/data-sheets/103-Sorbothane-adhesive-recommendations.pdf However you have to buy a minimum$75.00 order. I have otherwise found self-stick very good. It uses an exceedingly thin double sided tape. I have wondered about buying some of this tape and applying it.

    As I recall my observations about superglue, it was somewhat better on on bass but seemed to mess up the treble compared to self-stick. Sorbothane referred to using a flexible superglue, which I have never encountered. Googling brings up this. https://www.getfpv.com/insta-flex-f...MIqZ3UoMOc1gIVHLXACh0qvQFFEAQYAiABEgLxsvD_BwE
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  5. Hutnicks
    Ahother possibility is Bicycle tyre tape used to hold tubular tyres on to aluminum or carbon rims. Fairly pricey but if you have a local bike shop they may have odds n sods left over from mounting tyres.
  6. Jaab
    I don't know if this can help, I used in my last mode Aleene's tack-it over & over, I was not very tempted to try (I read about it) but I have been surprise by his strench, it stick well to sorbo and stay always soft
    just apply the glue (white color) wait it become transparent and place your sorbo (you can wait all night or even more before you place your sorbo piece). It's ideal to stick pads on headphones.
    (My last advice about silicone glue resulted awful, sorry!)
  7. chrismini
  8. chrismini
    Hello Richard my friend. Are you still out there?
  9. richard51
    Yes Chrismini.... i hope that all is right for you...

    Have you try the agate?
  10. richard51
    I want to thank you Mogimu .... This F.oq tape works marvel with my headphone Beyerdynamic Dt 150,( i will later treat my stax and he-400) works marvel with all my cables, even the battery cable of my dac,and the Panamax power station, it works also good with the amplifier, but not so if directly glued on the speakers because they are already heavily damped with a sandwich of sorbothane, bamboo,cork,and granite plate, with on top a heavy load of concrete ,hence using the tape glued on the speakers with all that kills some dynamic .... I think that damping is optimalized if not applied too much... Next i will try my new dac(french 2-r2 dac for 20 bucks on ebay,lucky i am) in the next week...With the dac i think this tape would do marvel also.... I now use with great success, sorbothane, and stones and crystals, and F.oq tape.... The tape seems to clean equally all frequencies,but especially higher frequencies,greatly enhancing imaging and the aura of each sound.... Anyway if your speakers are not damped like mine i suggest you try it with them ... This tape makes miraculous cure and complement greatly the sorb. and the crystals and stones... I recommend it to all people.... I am very pleased to have cross your road, Mogimu, thanks thousand times for your suggestion and ideas... :L3000: Without this Edstrelow thread of new ideas and experimental motivation i know that my audio system would never have satisfied me like it did now...Thanks to all of you...

    P.s. Experiment gradually with some pieces one at a time, with small bands more than with bigger one in one swoop...This will optimalize cumulatively the damping effect exactly for your systems...However the action of the tape is clearly there, especially on the cables and interconnects, the action is cumulative, like a cleaning across all frequencies, but the tape is not a replacement for the sorbothane in the headphone or in the speakers, they dont act the same, nor a replacement for my powerful stones and crystals, sorb. and crystals are more powerful but more difficult to use, because stones and crystals act synergetically and if not choosen rightly can degrade the sound....But i cannot go on without this tape now, particularly on all my cables, that give me a clarity in the depth imaging that i dont have with other means...If you apply it on one cable at a time, you will hear a cumulative resulting effect...The greatest effect of this tape are on the cables of each element from the computer to the dac: the usb isolator and the spdif/usb convertor and the cable connection to the dac and the speakers cable...Astounding better atmospherical sound...i cannot put sorb. at these cables spots nor stones or crystals that produce this level of atmospherical cleanliness and definition...But for example deplacing only one stone around each of my speakers transform the global form of my soundstage in a totally new immersive one, the tape does not do that by himself, but trust me, help greatly for that surprising final result... At the end for the amplifier or the central electrical panel the tape cannot tame all the flow of electrical and mechanical noise and vibrations, stones and crystals does already that and putting the tape directly on the amplifier is only a subtle plus, because it act way better on the many cables of the amplifier ...

    In one simplistic word, the stones affect more the timbre and the soundstage, than the global cleanliness and clarity; the tape affect more the global clarity of the sound than the materiality of the timbre and the form of the soundstage

    For note my system use around 25 different species and varietes of crystals and stones, 3 are particularly extraordinary, the banded agate of madagascar, the tourmaline, and the shungite, but the shungite dont touch almost none of the elements of my system and act by his own field only, is very potent and difficult to use in the right manner...I know some will laugh but i dont give a damn.... I must say here what i experiment about....:beerchug:

    Incredibly i just put at last 3 separated large bands of tape on the big electrical one inch cable(already treated by jasper stones) that goes from the central electrical panel (already treated with agate and crystals) in my basement to the second floor of my house, hence completely upstream of my system, and the results were way more cleanliness on top of the already very spectacular effect of the stones.... This is the most spectacular effect of this tape and the last application i implement... Lesson i learn already with the crystals and stones: the more you act upstream the less noise there is ...Wow...

    Second update :
    To the one band of tape already there i added 2 more thin bands of tape around the isolator cable between the computer and the rest of my gear and that made large audible differences, a sort of 3-d liveliness that was not completely there before... This is my last application and seems to be, with the previous application on the big electrical cable of the central panel, the two best ones, like i have said it seems the more upstream app. has the more potent effect on the sound ...All my cables and interconnect are now with 2 or 3 bands of tape at either side....

    Third Update:
    If your headphone or speakers are already damped with sorbothane, go on very slowly with the F.oq tape... There can be too much damping and negative interaction if you use the tape to stick it directly on the headphone or the speakers already damped by the sorb. It is very remarkable that with ALL CABLES the tape do a very good job.... I cannot live without it now.... But if your headphones or speakers are already adequately damped use the tape only on cables...On my amplifier wich is already damped the effect was not particularly noticeable or even positive, without being negative for sure, hence this is my only reserve precaution about this tape....On ALL cables this tape is remarkably efficient.... Things with enclosure and complex electronic content: headphone,speakers, amplifiers,etc, are prone to electro-magnetic interferences and mechanical resonant vibrations but all these mechanical vibrations of the enclosure are best deal first with sorbothane or other damping method combined and EMI by stones and crystals; but cables have no big enclosure containing many electronic source of electro-magnetic and mechanical noises like speakers or headphones cups, hence less negative resonance problems, but cable vibrates because of EMI also and for this adverse electrical noise on cable location the tape do a job which is astounding,better there than stones and crystals, be it: electrical cable, audio cables, interconnect, speakers cables, headphone cables etc... Buy it...

    A final remark:
    I think now that the astounding effect of stones and crystals is not only a damping effect but also a kind of filtering effect, on a designed spot where they are put in place, of the global electro-magnetic interaction field of all pieces of interacting audio components...It is like my different stones, like tourmaline, lava beads,kyanite,jasper,labradorite, varieties of quartz,amethysts,agate,shungite etc acted like many complementary filters on a blended and mixed interactive fields,composed of all my gear system+ many interacting external fields... For this useful cleanliness function-job, nor sorb. neither the tape replace them in my experience....I must say in a final cautionary word that i am no scientist and my explanation are only words and metaphors that try to grasp my lived experience and experiments with no pretense whatsoever...Perhaps and certainly my so called "explanations" here are very "naive" but without using them it will not be possible for me to convey to you my experience at all, hence i apologize to any real scientist for my rant...Explanations or not, crystals and stones interact negatively or positively with the audio gear, this is a fact waiting for a true and more thorough explanation,the rest is speculation indeed...

    I dont recognize any of my cd anymore, they sound suddenly so organically musical, and finally after all these years of search i know it is possible to have high level audio experience with a not too high cost system.Some company promise exactly that with for example a power supply in the thousand dollars level; it is possible to mimic that with stones and crystals and tape, finally for less, i cannot afford one thousand dollars power supply for a 100 bucks vintage amp after all, so good it is, and my Sansui is goddam good:ksc75smile:... This tape was the missing element necessary for that experience because cables are not so easy to be rightly damped with sorb. or stones or crystals,unlike amp. or dac or power station or electrical panel or speakers or headphones which are themselves easily damped with sorb. + crystals and stones and with others complementary damping materials i also use, like cork,granite, bamboo,concrete, etc...The effect of the tape is finally an enhancement of all my stones and crystals tweaks that are now more audible in their stupendous action...

    Remember that in the audio journey the more spectacular changes are paradoxically the more subtle ones because they occur at the end of the trials and give to you at last, after all that cumulative action, the most organic musicality...

    Remarks about another subject :
    I read on some other forum a thread about a new dac, it was no surprise to me that nobody experiment exactly the same impressions with the same dac....What surprise me is that people seems not to understand, and sometimes does not want to understand, that room treatment,elimination of vibrations, and controls of EMI are more important for their system than buying a more expansive dac... (But i must remember that it was the same for me before i stumble on this thread and begin to experiment :deadhorse:). They have expansive and probably very good gear already but without adequate room treatment, and they are not using adequate damping method, they are not conscious about EMI interference, and they put all their audio hopes in the desesperate move to buy without end the newer plug-in and listen solution...I was like that, exactly like that in the beginning of my journey, before the new counciousness installed in me by the lecture of the Edstrelow experiments thread ... Now i know that hype and the price of gear are not the warrent of a satisfying audiophile experience...Thinking and experimenting after studying the ideas of others is the key to audio heaven.... I dont have much money to begins with, hence this road was my only possible road...And after all i only want to listen to music but with a good sound-carrier system ,and i have it now...
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  11. edstrelow Contributor
  12. edstrelow Contributor
    I take your point Richard51 about the degree of sonic improvement you can get from some of these comparatively inexpensive modifications. I was listening to an old recording of Bryn Terfel doing English songs on my heavily damped Stax Lambdas both 404 and LNS. I had liked some of this but as with many opera signers, the voice doesn't play back well and I hadn't listened to this recording in some years. Now I realized that this is very good recording, his voice is beautiful, his technique immaculate and some of the songs brought me to tears. The DACs were older Musical Fidelity, the CD players a cheap Sherwood however with sorb damping on the circuit boards and on the cd clamp as I have noted previously,a few pages back. 100_4432.JPG
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
    richard51 likes this.
  13. richard51

    Exactly my experience....Some cd i have not appreciated much because they seems to sound worse than average often has only reflected the bad shape of my non-damped system at this time.... What i discover now is that an old stax system that were TOTL 30 years ago or more, a vintage amplifier or vintage headphone is always TOTL today, in his relatively similar bracket price, if it is rightly damped...Thanks Ed :beerchug:
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  14. richard51
    I have received my little NOS(non oversampling) french mini Dac TDA 1543 of designer Christophe Mariac... I have bidded and won it on ebay,lucky me :ksc75smile:, for 20 bucks, it is the dac2,or version 2 without the usb... I connect it from a 12 volt lithium battery and by optical to an Hifimediy convertor and isolator from my computer(all damped by sorb. Fo.Q tape and stones).... The Beresford Bushmaster mkII dac i own already was good but is a bit less natural in the musical timbre and a bit less holographic in the imaging relatively to this dac in my system... In one word i am very pleased by this extraordinary purchase.... I must say that my system, like mostly all of you readers here already know, (aka all my pieces of gear) are rightly and totally damped with Fo.Q tape for all cables, with sorbothane and other materials and concrete load, and also treated with stones and crystals of my own design that modify also the sound of each one of my piece of audio according to their synergy and according to my taste....I must say and repeat myself that almost all people alas! buy costly so-called upgrade products before thinking to damp adequately their system and without treating their room if they have speakers, hence all reviews of any product is in general plague by ignorance of the unique synergetic links of all system parts,plague also by ignorance of the destructive impact of all vibrations and EMI, hence all reviews are at best highly relative impressions... After saying that with caution, my review of this dac is that it sound in my system without any defective or negative trait at all and is indeed more than a very good product by virtue of his minimal design and cost...But maybe it will not be exactly this way in your system, or so astounding,certainly not if your system is not damped nor treated for EMI...

    I cannot dream to upgrade and exhange this dac for a costlier one, first because a real upgrade to this dac must be very, very costlier indeed and secondly because the price will not be commensurate with my own vintage amplifier and vintage speakers, that are astoundingly good for a ridiculous price (buying vintage is the solution for the poor audiophile because one of the best amplifier in 1978 is also an extraordinary product today).... Then at the end this remarkable product will be one of my favorite dac for years to come....

    After some break-in hours at first, it seems impossible to go back to my excellent Bushmaster....Nos dac are way more natural sounding, this dac is the less costlier of all 2-r2 nos dac and is truly marvellous in a damped system...More lows, better musical highs,more natural musical timbre,seems a little bit more holographic in imaging because of the more musically contrasted timbre of each instrument compared to one another,each one better located in their own space... How lucky i am !:ksc75smile: Finally if you want a microscope to see sounds "plankton" more than hearing the organic flow of music, this dac is not for you, this dac convey plenty of details but never at the price of organic musicality....

    UPDATE 2 : It takes more than 30 hours of break-in to lift the slight compression in the mids frequencies, the sound now is absolutely without fault to my ears and in my system and better than my other dac in the sense of being more natural with the same level of details and a better imaging, each instrument sound more in his own space, the timbre are more realistic with no artificial digital compression i easily detect now that i can listen and compare with another kind of dac, there is no fatigue at all at any volume .... incredible bargain even at his normal 100 bucks bidding price on ebay .... There will be no going back to oversampling dac for me...

    UPDATE 3 : The break-in process stabilize only after approximatively 100 hours... Before that any review will not be totally a good testimony to this "over the roof cost/quality" dac... It is the best bargain that i have ever stumble to....There will never be another oversampling dac for me.... With this non-oversampling dac you listen to music not to sound....The experience must be lived to be understood...

    The most synergetical pairing with this Nos dac would be indeed with a very analytical amplifier( i think for example that my Sansui AU-x701 will be a better pairing with it than my now connected AU 7700) and some not too dark headphone, if your system is only a little bit muddy this dac will not make thing better "per se", hence it is necessary to damp your system to appreciate his strongest musical points...In the future i will connect it to my most analitycal Sansui, and put back the Bushmaster with the 7700 with which there is a good match or perhaps buy another mini battery dac i think ( i want 2 complementary functional audio systems one for Staxes and one for orthos or dynamic cans)... In audio, synergy is half the solution, damping and cleaning EMI, the other half; the rest, if there is one, :ksc75smile:, is some TOTL products only real money can buy, and sometimes totl product at low cost like this dac....

    I put sorbothane sandwich under the feet and on top of it, some sorb. with a heavy load, i put a little bit of Fo.Q tape bands on the dac, with bands of tape around the cables,with some agate stones near it and kambaba jasper stones, i connect it to my lithium battery itself damped,"et voila" ...

    For the sake of all, a photo of this little marvel in the nude state of his creation:

    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  15. edstrelow Contributor
    Following up some of the comments about fo.q, I found this review of several of their products.


    They appear to be using sorbothane type materials, I see the reference to polymers, which is what sorb is. However they add other materials in their products such as wood and ceramics, claiming that these add to the performance.

    The prices seem very high, $230.00 for a record stabilizer, essentially a small puck to place on an lp while it is playing. And even though the reviewer is enthusiastic about these products, he distinctly downplays their effectiveness i.e. "two percent differences." Now in my experience a good sorbothane based mod gives a damn sight more than a 2% difference and you are only spending a few dollars.

    So while these products may be useful, I wonder about cost-effectiveness.

    Part of what I like about my own sorb experiments, is that you can play with properties like density (called duro) and thickness, my own recommendations being to go with the thickest and densest sorb you can install. I wonder if all the fos.q people did with their addition of ceramics and wood to the polymers could have been achieved more easily by using denser polymer.

    The bottom line here is that this seems like an expensive set of products to achieve what may be done more effectively with properly chosen sorbothane. Still, I am glad to see such products coming out since they draw attention to the importance of vibration control in audio.

    Here is another review. http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php...ts-and-ab-4045-audio-board-isolation-platform.

    This is somewhat more enthusiastic but still the cost issues remain. Interestingly I note that he finds no benefits as applied to speakers, while I find that sorbothane, especially 1/2 70 duro is quite effective.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    richard51 likes this.
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