[edstrelow]

Ive been using antil damping material on speakers, amps, and more recently headphones since the 1980's. Sorbothane is excellent in the high duro measurements but its expensive and doesn't stick well. For head[hones I use dynamat - cheap, easy to cut, and stays in place. It's not as potent per amount as sorb, but I like it. Use it to control vibrations and to try and get headphones to sound similar to acoustic suspension bass with a Q of .707 - roughly.

I use it on all my cans in order of most to least: HE-500, MD-4XX, HE-5LE, HE-6 SE v1 (all HFM primarily for bass Q) & Senn HD-600 (the body vibrates), and yes the bass is cleaner. Whatever is missing from those treatments and open air bass loss is replaceable by EQ, but no longer under damped bass and amusical vibrations.

"Sorbothane is excellent in the high duro measurements but its expensive and doesn't stick well." Actually it hardly sticks at all, it needs either 3m double sided tape or Lord industrial glue (you can get the precise make from my other posts) I got onto from talking to a tech advisor at Sorbothane.

 

[edstrelow]

i use self gluing sorbothane patch.... They glued so well and stick, after many years they are not easily removable.... Then no problem for me.... Sorb absorb vibration and transform some % of these vibrations absorbed in heat.... Dynamat damp nothing else and will change more the timbre...

I also use some Fo.Q tape Ta-32, a japanese product which adress more high frequencies.... It complement sorb....

Greetings friend! I have been off these forums for some time. Basically I got what I needed and don't care to argue with people who aren't even prepared to try these mods, which are actually pretty inexpensive. Here is a post I just did on the high-end site in regard to the $5,000 Focal Utopia phones. Those folk are in serious need of help. I doubt that many even go to concerts of live unamplified music which makes it hard to really judge what you are shooting for in audio.

"
I have been off for some time from these forums for some time now. Essentially I got what I needed some years back when I delved into the problems of headshell and speaker cabinet resonance, and got some good answers, namely they need a lot of damping. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dam...s-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials.744839/ I use sorbothane but other materials are also available. However I am currently visiting a friend in the UK who has invested heavily in his gear including the Utopia, Naim Unit Atom, Dave, 1,000 pound interconnects etc. and had listen to what some regard as an ultimate phone. My opinion, good but harsh sounding treble as is just about any phone or speaker where the case/cabinet is not well damped. I am sure I can make the focals significantly better but I didn't bring my supplies with me. Since I have well-damped Stax SR-007's at home, I see no need to go into dynamics.

The Brits seem a bit better on damping than Americans, possibly because of the influence of the old BBC monitors which had extensive damping according to my sources. My friend's speakers are Harbeth 30.2 which the company claims are heavily damped although the company does not disclose with what. Naim which my friend is heavily into has made a fetish of damping its circuits, cables etc.

As regards the Dave/Naim/Utopia combination there is certainly no denying that this is a quality system. It still sounds somewhat harsh compared to my comparison laptop travelling phones, Sony MDR-ZX110 with fair hunks of sorbothane glued on with a Lord industrial glue and wrapped in electric tape to make them a constrained damping setup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrained-layer_damping. The Sony's cost the princely sum of $10.00 the sorb and glue probably trebled the price (the glue is $35/half pint). The Sony's are somewhat muddy in the lower/mid bass but you can't get everything for ten bucks. Imaging and soundfield are about the same.

I suggest that if you really care for quality sound rather than massaging your egos with discussions about owning costly gear you might want to look into this"

 

[richard51]

I am very happy to thank you...
You did not know it but you started me in headphone modification but not only in headphone mods but in speakers modification and room acoustic.. ..
I lost my fear to "touch" audio product...I modified and improved all my headphones...

I then investigate speakers vibrations and room acoustic extensively...
Without your gracious free gift of sorbothane which started me in a string of experiments (9 years ago ?)
I will had never been able to reach heaven nirvana without your initiation and motivation and example and generosity ...

I just sold my large house though, loosing my homemade acoustic room... i was sad but all ended well...
Because i bought 5 years ago AKG K340 the only real hybrid headphone with a grid of tuned resonators inside
I opened it put sorb duro 70 and FoQ, tape inside, optimize it with other modifications, ( it takes me 6 months of listening experiments) and created my audio system around it and now i am in sonic heaven at no cost for a second time ...

I wanted to thank you for your very useful experiments... Without you i will be in an upgrading dead end as most passive consumers are ...We need exemple to dare to open headphone or to modify audio product with confidence in our EARS...
Without your first impulse and this FREE gift from you i know for a fact i will never had experimented with acoustic either or vibrations in speakers ...Because someone must take a start somewhere...

Rest assured that you were very useful and right about what you said....

Thanks for your dedication...

I wish you the very best....The best luck in audio for me was to stumble in your thread long time ago... It was fun and i learned a lot even after my departure from Head-fi when i created my acoustic room...I lost my fear and gain confidence in my hearing...

Thanks...

Greetings friend! I have been off these forums for some time. Basically I got what I needed and don't care to argue with people who aren't even prepared to try these mods, which are actually pretty inexpensive. Here is a post I just did on the high-end site in regard to the $5,000 Focal Utopia phones. Those folk are in serious need of help. I doubt that many even go to concerts of live unamplified music which makes it hard to really judge what you are shooting for in audio.

"
I have been off for some time from these forums for some time now. Essentially I got what I needed some years back when I delved into the problems of headshell and speaker cabinet resonance, and got some good answers, namely they need a lot of damping. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dam...s-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials.744839/ I use sorbothane but other materials are also available. However I am currently visiting a friend in the UK who has invested heavily in his gear including the Utopia, Naim Unit Atom, Dave, 1,000 pound interconnects etc. and had listen to what some regard as an ultimate phone. My opinion, good but harsh sounding treble as is just about any phone or speaker where the case/cabinet is not well damped. I am sure I can make the focals significantly better but I didn't bring my supplies with me. Since I have well-damped Stax SR-007's at home, I see no need to go into dynamics.

The Brits seem a bit better on damping than Americans, possibly because of the influence of the old BBC monitors which had extensive damping according to my sources. My friend's speakers are Harbeth 30.2 which the company claims are heavily damped although the company does not disclose with what. Naim which my friend is heavily into has made a fetish of damping its circuits, cables etc.

As regards the Dave/Naim/Utopia combination there is certainly no denying that this is a quality system. It still sounds somewhat harsh compared to my comparison laptop travelling phones, Sony MDR-ZX110 with fair hunks of sorbothane glued on with a Lord industrial glue and wrapped in electric tape to make them a constrained damping setup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrained-layer_damping. The Sony's cost the princely sum of $10.00 the sorb and glue probably trebled the price (the glue is $35/half pint). The Sony's are somewhat muddy in the lower/mid bass but you can't get everything for ten bucks. Imaging and soundfield are about the same.

I suggest that if you really care for quality sound rather than massaging your egos with discussions about owning costly gear you might want to look into this"

 

[edstrelow]

Ive been using antil damping material on speakers, amps, and more recently headphones since the 1980's. Sorbothane is excellent in the high duro measurements but its expensive and doesn't stick well. For head[hones I use dynamat - cheap, easy to cut, and stays in place. It's not as potent per amount as sorb, but I like it. Use it to control vibrations and to try and get headphones to sound similar to acoustic suspension bass with a Q of .707 - roughly.

I use it on all my cans in order of most to least: HE-500, MD-4XX, HE-5LE, HE-6 SE v1 (all HFM primarily for bass Q) & Senn HD-600 (the body vibrates), and yes the bass is cleaner. Whatever is missing from those treatments and open air bass loss is replaceable by EQ, but no longer under damped bass and amusical vibrations.

You are right, it doesn't stick well on its own. It needs something to stick it. Some come with 3M self stick 2 sided tape. Alternatively several materials are recommended by Sorbothane (the company.) I have been using Lord 7650 sold be Ellsworth, it is expensive and somewhat messy but works well after it hardens. It starts to work in about an hour is better overnight. One report says it needs a week to become fully stuck. I personally seems to hear subtle improvements weeks and months beyond that time.

 

[edstrelow]

When I first saw this thread, this was my reaction.
Sorbothane is awesome, and I have used it in audio projects before.
HOWEVER
It is only a de-coupler. It has excellent viscoelastic properties, but that does not make it a constrained layer damper.
Using a purpose-built product is going to have much better results and fit in more spaces.
If you're after the absolute best damping per unit volume, look to Second Skin Audio based out of Illinois. (source: independent testing on DiyMobileAudio.com)
It used to be SoundDeadenerShowdown, but he retired, and his sources are unknown.
Second Skin sells these nice little 3x5 sheets that would be perfect for small projects like headphones and mechanical keyboards.
They also have liquid products that can be applied nearly anywhere and dry to harden.
It is important to note that the best results for CLDs are seen with continuous coverage. In other words, don't cut out 4 little pieces to make a circle. Do your best to cut out the exact shape that you need, and your results will be better.

I would still use Sorbothane inside of a headphone where two pieces are in mechanical contact, and you can fit something in there.
An easy example for the proper use of Sorbothane would be washing machine legs. Sorbothane would decouple the movements of the washer from the floor.
If you can see a place in the headphone where this could happen, Sorbothane will help.
What immediately comes to mind is how the driver is mounted in the enclosure.
Using Sorbothane 100% effectively would require a custom mounting solution in most headphones.

I disagree on several points you raise. Sorbotane is not simply a decoupler material. Read some of the literature put out by the company https://www.insoles-sorbothane.com/...nch-isnt-each-step-you-take-just-as-critical/ or even Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbothane . It dissipates energy, by converting vibrations to heat. It does need to be stuck on in order for the dissipation properties to become effective. Materials like 3M double sided tape are sold with some of these products. I personally also use a glue recommended by Sobothane, Lord 7650. If it is not glued, very little energy will be transferred from the source to the sorb and its dissipation will be minimal. Even footers on fairly heavy equipment (I have a 28 lb B&O turntable) sounds better if glued by Lord or 3M. I spent a lot of time doing comparisons of various techniques with sorb by comparing two covers to a Stax SRX3 High Bias phone. Things that this has show are 1) Use the heaviest grade sorb, usually 70 duro is what you can get. 2) Use adhesive 3) Smaller footprints of sorb i.e. 1" square on headphones are more effective than larger pieces. 3) Notwithstanding the footprint, thicker sorb is more effective than thinner, I use a lot of 1/2 in 70 duro and would use 1" if I could get it. 4) Damping, in my instance by using layers of electrical tape on the top and side of the sorb pieces makes a big difference, I would say doubling the effectiveness of the sorb.

 

[bagwell359]

Greetings friend! I have been off these forums for some time. Basically I got what I needed and don't care to argue with people who aren't even prepared to try these mods, which are actually pretty inexpensive. Here is a post I just did on the high-end site in regard to the $5,000 Focal Utopia phones. Those folk are in serious need of help. I doubt that many even go to concerts of live unamplified music which makes it hard to really judge what you are shooting for in audio.

So true.

"
I have been off for some time from these forums for some time now. Essentially I got what I needed some years back when I delved into the problems of headshell and speaker cabinet resonance, and got some good answers, namely they need a lot of damping. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dam...s-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials.744839/ I use sorbothane but other materials are also available. However I am currently visiting a friend in the UK who has invested heavily in his gear including the Utopia, Naim Unit Atom, Dave, 1,000 pound interconnects etc. and had listen to what some regard as an ultimate phone. My opinion, good but harsh sounding treble as is just about any phone or speaker where the case/cabinet is not well damped. I am sure I can make the focals significantly better but I didn't bring my supplies with me. Since I have well-damped Stax SR-007's at home, I see no need to go into dynamics.

The Brits seem a bit better on damping than Americans, possibly because of the influence of the old BBC monitors which had extensive damping according to my sources. My friend's speakers are Harbeth 30.2 which the company claims are heavily damped although the company does not disclose with what. Naim which my friend is heavily into has made a fetish of damping its circuits, cables etc.

As regards the Dave/Naim/Utopia combination there is certainly no denying that this is a quality system. It still sounds somewhat harsh compared to my comparison laptop travelling phones, Sony MDR-ZX110 with fair hunks of sorbothane glued on with a Lord industrial glue and wrapped in electric tape to make them a constrained damping setup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrained-layer_damping. The Sony's cost the princely sum of $10.00 the sorb and glue probably trebled the price (the glue is $35/half pint). The Sony's are somewhat muddy in the lower/mid bass but you can't get everything for ten bucks. Imaging and soundfield are about the same.

I suggest that if you really care for quality sound rather than massaging your egos with discussions about owning costly gear you might want to look into this"

I started in the Spring of '76 when I started playing with damping fluid (heavy shampoo) on my Dual 510 arm with an ADC-XLM, and many stops since (subs, speakers, TT's, rooms, headphones...

What may I ask did you do to your Stax? It's the treble I have an issue with on those.

 

[timb5881]

Sorbothane on my Stax SR-002 iem’s