CustomArt FIBAE Impressions Thread

[piotrus-g]

Actually that does improve crosstalk. The important factor is the shared resistance between both channels. With 4 wires and a 3-pole plug the shared resistance is the plug's, which usually is <0.1 Ohm. But with only 3 wires, shared resistance consists of jack and the wire till the Y-splitter, which is close to half the cable's total resistance.
You can easily confirm (or disprove) my calculations. Just take a F1 with stock cable, drive one side only and measure the undriven channel in your IEC rig. It should give you a level about 11 to 12,5 dB below the driven channel. If you do the same with a 4 wire cable the measured level will be much lower if there's any. The additional volume that can be archived by a cable with lower resistance could easily be measured as well.

Interesting...

Plastics1 (crosstalk levels)

Effect Audio Thor Copper (crosstalk levels)

Difference between Effect Thor and Plastics1 in volume. I didn't remove the IEM from coupler to make the switch so it should be as close to reality as possible

I realized that the above picture presents measurement when only single side is connected on the cable (Left) so it removed cross-talk from equation.

Below is the same measurement (although this time I had to remove the IEM from coupler, but tried to place is in the exact same position) When both left and right channels are connected on the cable, measured channel is still left.

 

[bartzky]

Plastics1 (crosstalk levels)

Spoiler

I meanwhile have build a simulation (yeah, I know I'm a freak) by taking the impedance measurement from here, subtracted 1.6 Ohm (to get the 3 Ohm impedance of the F1 w/o cable) and used 2.6 Ohm for the P1 cable. This is the outcome:



Strangely the crosstalk you measured is about 20 dB lower than my calculations and my simulation. How much was the output impedance in your measurement? Does your amp introduce some crosstalk itself?

Nevertheless, the crosstalk measured with the 4 wire Thor is much lower than with the 3 wire P1.

Judging from the volume differences you measured, the Thor's resistance should be about 1.8 Ohm?

 

[CalvinW]

2 weeks in, hopefully just 2 more weeks before I receive my F3. Chiming in on the cable differences, I initially bought an Eros II to use with my Campfire Vega and definitly didn't hear much of a difference compared to the stock cable. Waiting on the F3 to see if the change will be more prominent. I was pretty open minded when it came to aftermarket cables so I splurged a little to get an Effect Audio cable but not convinced so far...

 

[piotrus-g]

Strangely the crosstalk you measured is about 20 dB lower than my calculations and my simulation. How much was the output impedance in your measurement? Does your amp introduce some crosstalk itself?
Judging from the volume differences you measured, the Thor's resistance should be about 1.8 Ohm?

I'm using Fast Track C400 for measurements (I know nothing high-end...). It's higher output impedance sound card (20-30 ohm range I think). I can run it through O2 amp if you'd like further measurements.

F1 (same piece from before) with EA Thor measures 3.26 Ohm at 1kHz. Meaning that Thor is 0,28 Ohm at 1kHz

 

[bartzky]

I'm using Fast Track C400 for measurements (I know nothing high-end...). It's higher output impedance sound card (20-30 ohm range I think). I can run it through O2 amp if you'd like further measurements.

Well, that changes everything

I've plotted you the calculated crosstalk level in relation to the output impedance:


An output impedance of 30 Ohm calculates to a crosstalk of -28.44 dB as you measured -28.45 dB. I think that's close enough. If you would run it through the O2 you will likely measure a crosstalk value very close to my calculations.

I guess your listening impressions refer to a lower output impedance source?

F1 (same piece from before) with EA Thor measures 3.26 Ohm at 1kHz. Meaning that Thor is 0,28 Ohm at 1kHz

Just as with the crosstalk the output impedance comes into play here as well. My calculations were made for a 0 Ohm output. If you measured the cable's impedance correctly, you should gain about 4 dB when using the O2 and changing from P1 to Thor.

 

[piotrus-g]

Hmmm, so I run into following thing...
The line output on C400 is balanced and if I change level to 0 on one channel it doesn't cross talk on o2.
If I connect o2 to headphone output of C400 the cross talk depends on the output set on C400 - so I can get few different results in 1/3 the cross talk turned out around 15dB and on 2/3 around 13dB with similar curve to what @bartzky presented here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/customart-fibae-impressions-thread.854355/page-41#post-14022673

The gain vs Thor is 4dB as calculated and cross talk (in 1/3 volume on C400) is 37dB

That said I still hear difference when using Thor on C400... I don't really use o2.

[Edit] FIBAE1 + Thor reads 3.24 Ohm, so there's no difference in measured impedance of the cable
[Edit2] Setting aside technical parameters I can still see differences in CSD response between those two cables. While matched within 0.02dB
[Edit3] So I indulged myself with some cable listening and comparison (just pure yay!) and trying to volume match each time I changed the cable from Thor to P1 I could hear some differences. With Thor FIBAE 1 sounded fuller with most noticeable improvement in sub-bass response. Highs have better separation and thus texture on Thor as well.

So what is our conclusion of this Measurement Monday? In my opinion, a) FIBAEs due to low overall impedance are more prone to changes in volume because of different cables, b)crosstalk does play a role while changing cables, c) 4-core cables are preferred for keeping crosstalk lower - with preferably use of fully balanced output and cable d) there are measurable differences in CSD between cables, despite marginal changes in frequency response plot when compared e) finally take it for what ever it's worth I can hear a difference despite volume matching. This comes from a person who didn't really listen to cables. I use the most basic set up with my IEMs for daily listening and only use different set ups for comparisons while tuning new products and checking how they behave in different conditions. The aim though is that the IEM must perform excellent with stock cable first and for most.

 

[maz0r]

Wow this thread was busy today O.o, haven't had time to read the full back-scroll yet as I just got home.

Do you have any IEM's that accept 2-pin cables?

If you are happy to pay postage, I'd lend you my Ares II for you to form your own opinion. Unfortunately I use the Eros II more so am unable to lend that too. Or try and get down to Canjam London to try them all

Until my F3 turn up, I don't have any 2-pin headphones, and my order on the site still shows MMCX, but I did ask Piotr to change it to a 2pin recessed socket around when I paid so we shall see ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Canjam is probably a no go, my brothers wedding is either that weekend or the next, so I'll be tied up with a rehearsal or an actual wedding (assuming his fiance doesn't kill him in the mean time ^^).

 

[Cherubian]

A numb question but what exactly does the "flat impedance" stands for exactly? Not a technical guy here

 

[piotrus-g]

A numb question but what exactly does the "flat impedance" stands for exactly? Not a technical guy here

Ultimately it means that the load on amplifier is nearly linear which translates to very little change in sound signature of the IEM when using different sound sources.

 

[SchwarzeWolke]

Thx @bartzky! Played a little with EQ APO and the configuration files. I have now the feeling that "crosstalk" might be really one issue. With around -10dB crosstalk added, the music sounded something like "dull" and there was (obviuos!) less space in the music.

 

[ostewart]

Been a while since someone has posted here...

Was enjoying my FIBAE 3 today with my Effect Eros II cable.

Its still the impressive dynamic punch and extension of the lows, yet the cleanliness of the midrange and air and extension up top that really allows these to shine.

I really hope more people get these and realize the potential these have.

They are far from being clinical, dry and boring. They are fun and enjoyable yet still well balanced. The detail retrieval is stellar and they punch well above their price range.

 

[kubig123]

Been a while since someone has posted here...

Was enjoying my FIBAE 3 today with my Effect Eros II cable.

Its still the impressive dynamic punch and extension of the lows, yet the cleanliness of the midrange and air and extension up top that really allows these to shine.

I really hope more people get these and realize the potential these have.

They are far from being clinical, dry and boring. They are fun and enjoyable yet still well balanced. The detail retrieval is stellar and they punch well above their price range.

It’s a great combo, I’ve been using also the Eros ll+ and I feel this cable increase the sound stage even further. Right now it’s my favorite cable for the F3.

 

[audioNinja]

Man I just sent my ear impressions from Australia. This is going to be a long wait.....

Reading this thread gives me so much to look forward to but at the same time makes me so anxious....

 

[crabdog]

Man I just sent my ear impressions from Australia. This is going to be a long wait.....

Reading this thread gives me so much to look forward to but at the same time makes me so anxious....

Try to keep yourself distracted in the meantime. Piotr and the guys at CA get things done in good time. You wouldn't want them to rush it and potentially get the fit wrong or mess up one of those dreamy designs!

I know how you feel though, I have one on the way too. After my experience with the F2, I'm sure the F3 is going to be exceptionally good.

 

[subguy812]

Both of you in the waiting room are in for a real treat.