[Giru]

What reality? YOUR reality? The reality in which you speak for every single person in the world? What makes YOUR opinion more realistic than mine?

I repeat what I had to say in a different thread because of people also attempting to push their reality onto others:

The fact that I have to repeat this here, in my own thread, is profoundly disappointing.

Crin, like others before me have said, we respect your contribution to the hobby.

I know this is your thread and all but I implore you to reconsider what you said in your last post which I think was in poor taste and unbecoming of someone in your position.

No offence but I don't seem to agree with 90% of your placements these days either and I'm definitely not alone. I remember the time when me and my buddies would geek out over your lists but these days we don't even consider visiting your site/blog. We've just had so many bad purchases using this ranking/list/whatever, that we had to eventually stop trusting it.

I can go on about how it started (and yes it started with the Z1R, like for many others) and how it has kept getting worst (Monarch Mkii???? L.O.L.).

The Subjectivity vs. Objectivity debate aside, the very fact that we have widely different anatomies owing to racial, physical and environmental factors, precludes us from having "exactly" similar experiences with external stimuli. Add to this the complexity of taste and the inherent personal biases with music; these lists seem pointless and to make and defend them even more so. While this might be a "fun" and interesting way to pursue this hobby, things get into a different territory when business interests get involved.

You've been doing your reviews/measurements for a while and you've gained popularity. People look to your content for advise (and maybe benefit too) and so it is only natural for someone to feel disappointed after having spent hundreds or thousands of bucks based on these lists only to buy something that ranged from non-agreeable in taste to downright trash.

I know that you've had episodes of disagreement with others before and you have a cookie cutter "disclaimer" in place (which is quite a cozy spot to hide behind when questioned), but it would be nice if you would emphasize the subjective aspects of your choices and declare conflict of interests more openly.

I'm sure people will appreciate this, I'm certain I will. Just a penny worth of constructive criticism. Thanks!

 

[frix]

Dude just don't base your purchase decisions on one single person or list.

 

[goatkidbaahcity]

No offence but I don't seem to agree with 90% of your placements these days either and I'm definitely not alone. I remember the time when me and my buddies would geek out over your lists but these days we don't even consider visiting your site/blog. We've just had so many bad purchases using this ranking/list/whatever, that we had to eventually stop trusting it.

I can go on about how it started (and yes it started with the Z1R, like for many others) and how it has kept getting worst (Monarch Mkii???? L.O.L.).

Wow. Crin ranking list no longer S tier.

This guy and his buddie's ranking list new S tier.

 

[Antihippy]

The actual problem is people looking at it as a community consensus list instead of just one person's opinions. The list isn't the metacritic nor rotten tomatoes of IEMs lol. There's no standard other than one person's listening preference.
This isn't even an IGN problem where multiple reviewers are meant to represent an overall consensus. I don't understand how people don't understand this.

 

[Gromu]

Ok Crinacle, the thing is I can't understand how an s tier ( technically) suddenly become an A or A+
Is it that new IEMs introduced revolutionary detail retrieval and tonality now , so compared to them the likes of monarch mk II or 64 u12t ( which get praised everywhere) are now lesser IEMs ?
I red your article on your website but honestly I just don't get it!

(1) These are his opinions and how he hears things.

(2) As time passes, his tastes/standards change. Those specific IEMs have not gotten better or worse.

(3) The nature of his ranking list focuses on having as close to a standard deviation as possible. Not everything can or should be an S+ IEM even if it is really good. The practical difference between an A and S tier technicality is minute in the most cases.


Also, the ranking list is clearly not his priority, even if it is why people flock to him. The true value in his work comes from the measurements he takes of so many IEMs. You don't have to trust his rankings, but you can look at his graphs to get some idea of what the IEMs might sound like. And of course, nothing is ever a replacement for trying the IEMs out for yourself.

 

[Iron-Buddha]

I think he goes out of his way to make clear how he bell curved everything and provides caveats for his opinions. I have found myself diverging from his rankings, but maybe it doesn't bother me as much since I am comfortable having my own independent opinions and am a bit of a contrarian by nature.

Also, while I have watched a lot of Crin videos and reviews, I have no idea what kind of music he listens to which really matters.

 

[Raketen]

Does any body understand the new Crinacle ranking list
I want to upgrade from my Etymotic ER4XR
I was eying the monarch mk II because they ranked so high and was S tire in both tonality and technically
Now it seems everything is knocked down in the technicality section , even the
64 u12t , & right now I don't see any neutral IEM that gets to be s tier in tonality and technicality
So any help getting a top tier IEM excels on tonality and technicality
( and no v or u shaped)d

FWIW, I find the Gaudio Nair generally a step up from Ety (at the cost of being a bit more uneven for all around listening, possibly more source variable, also my ears find the shell uncomfortable), though I have not heard the latest ER4 models, only Evo and ER2SE from their newer stuff.

Maybe worth looking for a signature similar to Nair's but with the technicality grade you are aiming for (personally still hoping to eventually try Prophile8 and Helios, for my own "ety upgrade" eternal quest goal)

 

[crinacle]

I know that you've had episodes of disagreement with others before and you have a cookie cutter "disclaimer" in place (which is quite a cozy spot to hide behind when questioned), but it would be nice if you would emphasize the subjective aspects of your choices and declare conflict of interests more openly.

I'm sure people will appreciate this, I'm certain I will. Just a penny worth of constructive criticism. Thanks!

Here's the thing: I do. Constantly.

As much as I can, whenever I can, possibly to the annoyance of my audience. I can't link anything here due to MoT status but if you do a quick search, you'd find that I had dedicated an ENTIRE 12 minute video to speak on the things that affect the objectivity of my reviews, the conflicts of interest, and in general just the reasons why you SHOULD NOT trust me. This videos is linked back to on many videos thereafter and emphasised on the video itself that one should watch it before coming to any hard conclusions.

My latest video, talking about the new Ranking List, is a prime example where I constantly emphasise not to take me as gospel amidst trying to explain the changes and the data analysis of it all. It's a fine balance between having to do disclaimers and putting out the actual content, and spending 5+ minutes telling people about disclaimers in a 10 minute video is not great for audience retention.

Barring the use of a pop up disclaimer page that activates when someone visits my ranking list, I'm not sure what else I can do. You call it a "cozy spot to hide behind", I call it the wall of text that nobody wants to read, no matter how hard I try.

But beyond that, there is a simple explanation to why you don't seem to agree with me "these days".

At the beginning, everyone is new. They see a new Ranking List and simply do not have the experience to refute it. I was like that at some point, so were you. You had not established the parameters in which you found something "good" or "bad", and therefore had no choice but to take the list at face value.

As you grow within the hobby, finding all of that out on your own, your own tastes and personal indicators of performance, you'd naturally diverge from everybody else. Not just me, not just your friends, EVERYONE. You as a person began understanding yourself more within the context of the hobby, forming your own opinions and biases, and I think that's beautiful. No two people would ever share the same set of opinions on a macro scale, and if we sat everyone down and had them do a ranking list themselves I am 100% confident we will never ever find a duplicate.

So no, the Ranking List didn't get worse. I was never a community consensus. You simply grew and found your own answers, as you should.

 

[ajaxender]

The accusations here are deeply ironic, given they can only stem from an inflated sense of self-importance of the accusers. I'll back Crinacle up, he's always made the effort to make clear, his opinions are his - that what he's trying to do is form some amount of objectivity within his own subjectivity, hopefully for the benefit of those who want to better understand his opinions and compare with their own.

I rarely look for impressions or reviews here anymore because Head-fi is (and has always been) a place that encourages the "cult of personality" effect, where it's more important to be a known entity and drive traffic than it is to actually give sincere impressions of anything (and certainly not be meaningfully critical, what would the advertisers think). The 'biased' youtubers and other places that are well aware of their own subjectivity are far more useful to figure out what's good, or more to the point what I might actually like.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

You need multiple datapoints to train your intelligence, artificial or natural. I do agree though that list has become less aligned with mainstream rating, that taking into account other well respected reviewers, random users here and reddit and personal experience. (mood swing?)
In the end it's just one person take on things, take as much as you can from it, just do not treat as a gospel.

 

[desutruction]

but it would be nice if you would emphasize the subjective aspects of your choices and declare conflict of interests more openly.

This has never been unclear from day one, what are you on about?

The Subjectivity vs. Objectivity debate aside, the very fact that we have widely different anatomies owing to racial, physical and environmental factors, precludes us from having "exactly" similar experiences with external stimuli. Add to this the complexity of taste and the inherent personal biases with music; these lists seem pointless and to make and defend them even more so. While this might be a "fun" and interesting way to pursue this hobby, things get into a different territory when business interests get involved.

It's just some dude's list. It's even more pointless to argue against. Literally just don't look at it if you don't have the requisite media literacy to understand and process preferential lists.

 

[bukumurah]

I am thankful for Crin's rankings as it had helped me a lot when I was still a portable audio newbie.. I have owned and tested most of the (old ranking's) S/S- tiers.. no regrets whatsoever

However, I do believe that every audiophile must 'GROW UP' and form his/her own opinions based on experience with multiple gears, and system matching (also something Equally Important!), as well as understanding one's own preferences (for instance, I am a musicality guy over tonality and technicalities, though I would still be pissed if any of those is lacking).. any longtime audiophile who still goes about his/her hobby BASED SOLELY on other people's rankings, reviews, and affirmations should probably rethink their life more seriously..

Regarding system matching and personal preferences, I have also owned and tested many high end DAPs and Amps.. and some decently high quality, but NOT exotic, cables (I do not believe in spending kilobucks on hardware equalizers, which is what cables essentially are IMHO).. all I can say is that there are many instances where I would, without any hesitation, drop an S rank iems to B rank simply due to poor system matching, and vice versa.. so system matching is just as important as the quality of the IEMs themselves (though you still won't be able to turn crap IEMs to gold by using a million dollar DAP or Amp)..

Audiophile is not a simple and straightforward hobby.. there are endless layers of complexities and also personal preferences..

But to Grow Up as an audiophile is a must!

 

[bukumurah]

FWIW, I find the Gaudio Nair generally a step up from Ety (at the cost of being a bit more uneven for all around listening, possibly more source variable, also my ears find the shell uncomfortable), though I have not heard the latest ER4 models, only Evo and ER2SE from their newer stuff.

Maybe worth looking for a signature similar to Nair's but with the technicality grade you are aiming for (personally still hoping to eventually try Prophile8 and Helios, for my own "ety upgrade" eternal quest goal)

Go for the PP8 if you are the technicalities kind of audiophile.. otherwise you would be putting on this face while listening to highly accurately reproduced sounds (or music if you insist on calling it that)..

Me? I am a musicality kind of audiophile, who owns and highly values the PP8 for its superb technicalities and accuracy..

 

[maneltoh]

Also here's my fresh comparison between Oriolus Trailii and Ambient Acoustics MAD24 aforementioned: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ge-all-welcome.957426/page-4275#post-17722304

Dude shared this link on the Watercooler thread, didnt have feedback, now he is spaming here.

Crin, like others before me have said, we respect your contribution to the hobby.

I know this is your thread and all but I implore you to reconsider what you said in your last post which I think was in poor taste and unbecoming of someone in your position.

No offence but I don't seem to agree with 90% of your placements these days either and I'm definitely not alone. I remember the time when me and my buddies would geek out over your lists but these days we don't even consider visiting your site/blog. We've just had so many bad purchases using this ranking/list/whatever, that we had to eventually stop trusting it.

I can go on about how it started (and yes it started with the Z1R, like for many others) and how it has kept getting worst (Monarch Mkii???? L.O.L.).

So reading and understanding crinacle's disclaimers are so hard to do?

 

[thescientist]

Ok Crinacle, the thing is I can't understand how an s tier ( technically) suddenly become an A or A+
Is it that new IEMs introduced revolutionary detail retrieval and tonality now , so compared to them the likes of monarch mk II or 64 u12t ( which get praised everywhere) are now lesser IEMs ?
I red your article on your website but honestly I just don't get it!

I'm chiming in on this because this seems like a math issue more than anything else. Crin's ranking list is relative. Changes in the rankings don't have to mean anything became much better or worse, just that Crin with his revised process discerned a difference that he previously did not. The difference between an S tier and A+ tier IEM with the new ranking list is the the difference between being in the top 0.3% vs top 1%. Is it really so hard to believe that, after careful reevaluation, Crin is saying that he thinks some items only outperform 99% of others vs 99.7%?

I really think that a big part of the backlash Crin deals with when it comes to his ranking list is his adherence to the normal distribution in a world where grade inflation is the norm (both inside and outside of audio).