[Aerathion]

 
we are working through the last emails today so we should get to yours

awesome, thanks

 

[grushaaa]

Please give me frequency response ba4f or ce6.

 

[Ultrainferno]

Please give me frequency response ba4f or ce6.

 
I doubt you will get it (here). Have you tried contacting CE?
I don't see why they should give it to anyone though.

 

[grushaaa]

Cosmic Ears:
Hello
Sorry we do not release our Frequency Graphs, the reason is that it can lead to misinterpretation. Each company measures is not a true comparison. With out knowing the setup it can be misleading for people.
Phil

I think this is not a serious answer, as many companies provide this information on their websites and even put a piece to each pair of headphones such as the Unique Melody,etc. we do not know what we take.

 

[vrapan]

Cosmic Ears:
Hello
Sorry we do not release our Frequency Graphs, the reason is that it can lead to misinterpretation. Each company measures is not a true comparison. With out knowing the setup it can be misleading for people.
Phil

I think this is not a serious answer, as many companies provide this information on their websites and even put a piece to each pair of headphones such as the Unique Melody,etc. we do not know what we take.

CE were doing demo's of their products. Why don't you ask for one of those? FR are definitely not the whole picture.

 

[grushaaa]

I as a consumer have the right to request the frequency response for any product whether it ba4f, ba2, ce6 or any. "Every science begins with measurement" Dmitri Mendeleev.

 

[Q Mass]

I as a consumer have the right to request the frequency response for any product whether it ba4f, ba2, ce6 or any. "Every science begins with measurement" Dmitri Mendeleev.

Indeed, but it's probably best if we refrain from demanding things of people, when they aren't obliged to provide them.
 
FR charts would only be truly useful to consumers if they were all measured in exactly the same manner, in a controlled environment.
 
Without this type of rigour, any comparitive conclusions drawn from the graphs would be fundamentally flawed, leaving the company supplying them open to undeserved criticism ( or undeserved praise ), hence the reluctance of many manufacturers to publish FR graphs.
 
The added diffficulty of measuring CIEM's which are by they're very nature all very different from each other casts further doubt upon the value of charts as a tool to aid choosing between products.
 
I think vrapan's suggestion to request Demo's would provide a much better way to assess your own reaction to CE's products, you can't beat hearing for yourself!
 
Reports here on Head-Fi suggest that universal demo's may not sound identical to full CIEM's, but that they give a good 'flavour' of the product in question.

 

[Ultrainferno]

I have to say I fully agree with CE and what the guys above have replied. Sure you have the right to request it, just as CE has the right to refuse giving it.
IMO, the tone of your messages is rather aggressive, maybe it's the lack of knowledge of the English language or maybe it's because you're new on the boards or maybe it's me being up way too early during my holidays but I doubt these posts will make people happy and willing to help. Just my 2 cents.
 
I can't agree on the "everything starts with measurements" either. It's not because something measures good that it sounds good, and vice versa but let's not go into that discussion here.
 
Ah well, good luck with your quest for FR fraphs

 

 

[AManAnd88Keys]

Cosmic Ears:
Hello
Sorry we do not release our Frequency Graphs, the reason is that it can lead to misinterpretation. Each company measures is not a true comparison. With out knowing the setup it can be misleading for people.
Phil

I think this is not a serious answer, as many companies provide this information on their websites and even put a piece to each pair of headphones such as the Unique Melody,etc. we do not know what we take.

I can understand their point. Before I ordered my BA4, Phil had sent me some measurements to compare it to those of the Heir 4ai. I thought that I could easily interpret them, but I could not. Phil had to explain some details to make sure that I did not misunderstand the "character" of the BA4 and 4ai. By the way, he did not talk badly about Heir Audio at all and tried his best to make a fair comparison!
Now if I imagine that many (potential) customers are like me, then that means that a) Cosmic Ears has to spend considerable time writing explanations of their measurements  b) misunderstandings are still, despite the explanations, very likely, and c) it is also likely that people focus on the measurements too much, and they don't tell you a lot anyway.
Some of the best stuff I ever heard does not measure well from a conservative point of view. On the other hand I have experience with gear that measures great and sounds ok at best. Personally, I don't care about measurements anymore.

 

[briskly]

Spoiler: On measurements

There are many difficulties with measuring IEMs, even though the sound is not dependent on the the outer ear.
At very least, the measurement standard and very expensive IEC 711/60318-4 spec ear simulators are closer to each other than different brands of dummy heads. This makes comparisons across websites easy, as long as the same tips are used.
The graphs are generally used to ensure product consistency instead of absolute accuracy, so the CIEM maker doesn't have to spend several thousand dollars on a 711 coupler. A much cheaper 2cc coupler is typically used for consistent results. These produce very different results in the mids and treble compared to the ear simulators used at Innerfidelity and Goldenears,
So to get a good idea of what the IEM sounds like, you have to compensate for level differences past 1kHz in the 2cc (if a 2cc is used) to the average ear, which never works perfectly. Then you apply HRTF compensation to the data, which pushes the upper mids and treble down again.
The big problem with a CIEM is a deep enough insertion into the coupler. A shallow insert leaves the peak lower in the treble than what would be heard by the listener. Even with an expensive ear simulator, the peak would throw off data above 4khz.
 
A clear example of insertion depth peaks can be seen in a comparison of the universal and custom molded JH Roxanne.
Raw and uncompensated measurement of the universal JH Roxanne into a 711 coupler:

 
 
Raw measurement of the custom roxanne

 
 
These graphs are largely the same except for two differences:
-The universal has more subbass at the min setting than the custom.
-More importantly, the 10kHz rise in the universal is now a giant peak at 7kHz. You see this with IEMs that are inserted very shallow, just barely deeper than earbuds. This also applies to a custom shell that is fitted deep into the coupler.
 
As an aside, I'd bet that the 6 kHz peak in most of Unique Melody's 2cc measurements is from a shallow fit into their coupler.

I like having measurements around. I find I can sift through measurement data and get a lot information more quickly than reading most people's impressions and figuring out their taste and what they think is a good balance. There are things that measurements don't make clear, but like impressions, there is a lot of depth to a good set of measurements, more than a single FR chart shows.

 

[shakur1996]

I understand arguments of both sides. At the end of the day I like to have measurements of my CIEMs to better understand what I hear. FR graph tells only part of the story; waterfall plot is necessary and impulse response is welcome.

 

[eR1k]

I've been waiting for Phil to develop the HY5 since he first mentioned them to me back in December 2012!
Should I just go for the CE4 Phil? or is a new hybrid still a possibility?

Me too, I know Phil had troubles sourcing a good dynamic driver when we emailed in February 2014, I'm also eagerly awaiting any news regarding a new hybrid. I much prefer to have a CE hybrid over any competitor's hybrid. 

Also, you can now request a demo of the CE10P, that does look interesting

http://www.cosmicears.com/demo-request/

 

[Ultrainferno]

Sooo, any updates? Anyone?

 

[davidcotton]

  Sooo, any updates? Anyone?

Well they are back at work now, so things should be moving along nicely.  It's great that they are set up  in the uk now (though methinks bad for the wallet!).
 
As an example I've ordered today a westone 3 reshell, black face plate with blue shells.

 

[Ultrainferno]

My BA4F update should be back to me before the end of this month. yay!