[ProtegeManiac]

The SYS can be switched at the push of a button. I'd say that's easier.

I'm more into "less boxes on the desk."

What I meant was that the active speakers have amps inside them, and adding a headphone amp (and a tube one at that) is likely going to audibly color the sound compared to using a passive preamp. The point is that we're comparing electronics to no electronics, and obviously the latter is going to be more accurate in sending along the signal the DAC outputs. (Even if it's not always more audibly accurate.) I noticed a significant coloration in the sound when using the amps in DAC/amps with my speakers as opposed to using them in DAC only mode via the SYS.

Well that's not "double amplification," just that an active circuit can colour the sound more than a passive circuit.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Well that's not "double amplification," just that an active circuit can colour the sound more than a passive circuit.

If you used a headphone amp to send the signal to another headphone amp (or whatever), you would call it double amping, so how is it not double amping when you are sending it from a headphone amp to speaker amps?

 

[Frank161]

I wasn't really asking about the position of your equipment relative to each other, I'm asking about your sitting position relative to the speakers. The relative position of the equipment, just gave me cause to ask because if there is that wide a disparity then I started wondering if you were sitting properly equidistant to both speakers. If you're looking at it all from the top, your speakers and your seat need to form an isosceles or equilateral triangle with the seat at the vertex point, not an obtuse triangle or a sideways isosceles. Even if you can't do anything about the room you still need to sit this way otherwise one speaker will be louder and you'll hear its output before the other, ditto not having them at ear height or angled since you won't be equidistant to both the tweeter and midwoofer on each side.

Sitting off-center in a nearfield set-up is kind of like upgrading speakers in a car but not using time alignment DSP to sync the output on every tweeter and midwoofer relative to the farthest driver (usually the subwoofer) and to each other, thereby making you hear enough differences. It won't be an obvious echo but the image will have the vocals off-center, everything else is screwed up, there can be sibilance when you hear one tweeter well ahead of even just the same side midwoofer, etc.

Basically since even with that more detailed description that lacks confirmation of whether you are forming an isosceles at the vertex does not make it clear to me that you are equidistant to each speaker, and if you are not, that's a waaaaaay bigger problem than anything else in the system right now.

My computer screen is the center of my setup and I sit at its center. My speakers are positioned right next to my computer screen at exactly the same distances from my screen. Currently the speakers aren't pointed at me, because I sometimes use them to listen to music when I'm not sitting at my desk.

The SYS can be switched at the push of a button. I'd say that's easier.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

If you used a headphone amp to send the signal to another headphone amp (or whatever), you would call it double amping, so how is it not double amping when you are sending it from a headphone amp to speaker amps?

Because a preamplifier output only passes through the preamp stage and bypasses the amplifier output stage of the amplifier. if it doesn't work that way then an AudioGD is double amping and double preamping regardless of where you set the output switch to. In the same manner you can take an integrated speaker amp and if you used its preamp output to control a pure power amp you hook up an RCA cable to the part of the board where the preamp is, not a damn speaker cable to the speaker binding posts on the integrated amp being connected to speaker binding post inputs on the power amp.

Signal goes into the analogue inputs and into the preamp/gain stage (orange), through the tube (blue), and from there can go towards the front to the amplifier output stage and out the headphone amplifier output (maroon) or the line signal that is now preamped and controlled by the volume knob can be routed to the back and goes straight into speaker power amps (green).

You took the words right out of my mouth.

That would be simpler or at least not more complicated (other than having one extra box) if you don't have to change the volume on the Sys when you switch between headphone and speaker.

My computer screen is the center of my setup and I sit at its center. My speakers are positioned right next to my computer screen at exactly the same distances from my screen. Currently the speakers aren't pointed at me, because I sometimes use them to listen to music when I'm not sitting at my desk.

There, as long as you're in the center then at least one highly problematic scenario isn't happening.

Again though I caution against getting two different cable lengths. Doing so will mean you have to get two sets of cables, and you said you might move soon - what if your listening area there can afford to have the equipment relocated? Two 2m long cables can be tidied up, but you can't make a short cable longer. Or, well, you can, but you'd have to build another cable with female plugs on one end.

 

[Frank161]

That would be simpler or at least not more complicated (other than having one extra box) if you don't have to change the volume on the Sys when you switch between headphone and speaker.

I don't mind about the extra box, it doesn't need extra power, so that's one advantage. I can change the volume separately on the speakers and headphone amp, so if I set them to the same loudness (you know what I mean), there's no problem.

There, as long as you're in the center then at least one highly problematic scenario isn't happening.

I don't know everything about audio, but I do know some basics.

Again though I caution against getting two different cable lengths. Doing so will mean you have to get two sets of cables, and you said you might move soon - what if your listening area there can afford to have the equipment relocated? Two 2m long cables can be tidied up, but you can't make a short cable longer. Or, well, you can, but you'd have to build another cable with female plugs on one end.

I ordered two 2 meter RCA cables (A09 from Ghentaudio) earlier today. It's not that soon I'll be moving out from my parents house, probably in 5 years or something.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Because a preamplifier output only passes through the preamp stage and bypasses the amplifier output stage of the amplifier. if it doesn't work that way then an AudioGD is double amping and double preamping regardless of where you set the output switch to. In the same manner you can take an integrated speaker amp and if you used its preamp output to control a pure power amp you hook up an RCA cable to the part of the board where the preamp is, not a damn speaker cable to the speaker binding posts on the integrated amp being connected to speaker binding post inputs on the power amp.

Signal goes into the analogue inputs and into the preamp/gain stage (orange), through the tube (blue), and from there can go towards the front to the amplifier output stage and out the headphone amplifier output (maroon) or the line signal that is now preamped and controlled by the volume knob can be routed to the back and goes straight into speaker power amps (green).

Are you sure? Have you actually verified this or are you just assuming? All the preamps I've used in active amps seemed to be active, not passive, because they very obviously colored the sound compared to using a passive preamp like the SYS. Even if in some cases it's a separate preamp stage and not the same electronics as the amp, it still seems to be active electronics. Schiit describes the preamp in the Vali 2 as a tube hybrid preamp. If it was passive, they wouldn't even mention the tube.

@Frank161 can test whether it audibly colors the sound compared to the SYS, at any rate.

I don't mind about the extra box, it doesn't need extra power, so that's one advantage. I can change the volume separately on the speakers and headphone amp, so if I set them to the same loudness (you know what I mean), there's no problem.

If you are controlling the volume of the speakers with the SYS, won't you have to adjust the volume of the SYS each time you switch to the Vali 2?

 

[Frank161]

@Frank161 can test whether it audibly colors the sound compared to the SYS, at any rate.

I can do that if you want.

If you are controlling the volume of the speakers with the SYS, won't you have to adjust the volume of the SYS each time you switch to the Vali 2?

Say I would need to set the speakers to 25% volume (without Sys) and Vali 2 also to 25% volume (without Sys). If I add the Sys between both of them and set that to 50% volume, I would need to set both the speakers and the Vali 2 to 50% for the same volume, correct? Or am I not understanding how basic electricity works (I have a bachelor's degree in ICT (with some electronics) and a high school degree in electricity)?

 

[Music Alchemist]

Say I would need to set the speakers to 25% volume (without Sys) and Vali 2 also to 25% volume (without Sys). If I add the Sys between both of them and set that to 50% volume, I would need to set both the speakers and the Vali 2 to 50% for the same volume, correct? Or am I not understanding how basic electricity works (I have a bachelor's degree in ICT (with some electronics) and a high school degree in electricity)?

So you're saying you listen to every song at the same volume without ever changing it? I change the volume many times in a single song sometimes.

 

[Frank161]

So you're saying you listen to every song at the same volume without ever changing it? I change the volume many times in a single song sometimes.

No, of course not, I change the volume a lot of times too (mostly not in the same song though). But if I only use the Sys for volume control, that won't cause such problems, right? Or am I not understanding this at all?

 

[Music Alchemist]

No, of course not, I change the volume a lot of times too (mostly not in the same song though). But if I only use the Sys for volume control, that won't cause such problems, right? Or am I not understanding this at all?

Ooooh, you plan on *only* using the SYS for volume control. I thought you were going to use the Vali 2's volume knob for headphones. My bad. haha. The way you worded it at first made it seem like something else.

I should also mention that volume knobs tend not to be linear, so percentages and o'clocks can be misleading in terms of the power being used. How loud something gets with the SYS at any given setting (as well as the gradients involved) depends on what you have connected to the inputs/outputs.

 

[Frank161]

I should also mention that volume knobs tend not to be linear, so percentages and o'clocks can be misleading in terms of the power being used. How loud something gets with the SYS at any given setting (as well as the gradients involved) depends on what you have connected to the inputs/outputs.

I guess I will figure it out when I get everything, but that might take some time. The Schiit Sys should arrive this week and I will order my new studio monitors (should arrive in 1 day after ordering) when I receive the RCA cables I ordered (which will take about 3 weeks for them to arrive here).

 

[Music Alchemist]

I guess I will figure it out when I get everything, but that might take some time. The Schiit Sys should arrive this week and I will order my new studio monitors (should arrive in 1 day after ordering) when I receive the RCA cables I ordered (which will take about 3 weeks for them to arrive here).

That's a long time to wait. I'm used to receiving items within a few days in the US. Good luck!

 

[Frank161]

That's a long time to wait. I'm used to receiving items within a few days in the US. Good luck!

I ordered the cables in China from Ghentaudio and the guy from that company told me he will ship them on Friday (they are custom made for me, I wanted a red sleeve instead of the standard black sleeve). Stuff from China usually takes 2-3 weeks to arrive at my place in Belgium, sometimes even longer.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Are you sure? Have you actually verified this or are you just assuming? All the preamps I've used in active amps seemed to be active, not passive, because they very obviously colored the sound compared to using a passive preamp like the SYS. Even if in some cases it's a separate preamp stage and not the same electronics as the amp, it still seems to be active electronics. Schiit describes the preamp in the Vali 2 as a tube hybrid preamp. If it was passive, they wouldn't even mention the tube.

If you are controlling the volume of the speakers with the SYS, won't you have to adjust the volume of the SYS each time you switch to the Vali 2?

An active preamplifier does not result in "double amping," it just means that the preamp circuit is "active" as in powered by an external source which can also boost the signal strength, but even then not in the same way as an active preamplifier outputting a high level signal that comes out of a speaker's power amp or even the kind of amplified signal that can drive a headphone. You are not going to be able to drive a passive speaker even with a 10v preamplifier output beyond somewhat moving the drivers. A preamplifier circuit is not the same kind of circuit as an amplifier output stage for the same reason that you have preamp/rectifier/gain tubes and driver/power tubes are not even the same thing, and again, the signal coming out of a 12AX7 or 6dj8 can either go out the back to a speaker power amp or go through a power tube on the same amp to drive either a speaker or a headphone. Some op-amps can be used either way but it depends on the circuit.

If double amping happens just by using an active preamp then why would they keep on making active preamps or putting what you think is a full preamp circuit (as opposed to gain control) on active monitors. Or, for that matter, if an active preamplifier circuit counts for "(first) amping," then why don't they just make a tube amp with just 12AX7's or 6DJ8's without the help of a 6SN7, KT88, or OPA2107 or whatever discrete component is used on the freaking amplifier output stage.

Passive preamps on the other hand were designed because some active preamps can color the sound when they preamplify it, ie, boosting the voltage, while what a passive preamplifier does is just reduce it as necessary. Even if you don't need more than 2v input to the power amp it does not necessarily mean that all active preamps are automatically bad, and in some cases, a slight bit of tube color (as on the Vali2) can be preferred by some people who, for one, already did purchase a Vali2 anyway (ie, presumably would want a little bit of it, which in some cases can help nearfield speakers if there are treble issues that placement can't fix or acoustic treatments can't be done for some reason).

 

[Frank161]

I got my studio monitors yesterday and connected everything with some cheap RCA cables (just temporary, I couldn't wait on the cables, because there were only two speakers left). They are a set of Focal CMS-40 and they sound great so far, but I do have one problem with them. They make a constant hiss, which is coming out of the tweeters of both speakers. I disconnected the RCA cables on the speakers and the hiss remains. Changing the volume on the speakers also doesn't make any difference. Any idea what's causing this? Or should I create a new topic/thread for this?