[Frank161]

Hi everyone,

I am planning on upgrading my current speakers to some studio monitors (probably Focal CMS 40, because of their build and compact form factor) and this will be my setup:

Schiit Modi Multibit > Schiit PYST RCA > Schiit Sys > Schiit PYST RCA > Schiit Vali 2

(How do I put the speakers behind the Sys? The Vali 2 will also be connected to the Sys. Am I using this system correctly to view the setup?)

Anyway, I will connect the studio monitors to the second RCA output of the Schiit Sys (used in reverse) for volume control. Most studio monitors have unbalanced RCA inputs and balanced XLR inputs if I'm correct. My question now is what is the best way to connect such a speaker? Completely unbalanced with standard RCA cables (like these)? Or a balanced XLR to unbalanced RCA cable (like these)?

Also, in my setup one of the speakers will be closer to the source than the other, do I buy 2 same length cables or do I buy 2 different lengths (shorter for one speaker)?

Thank you!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hi everyone,

I am planning on upgrading my current speakers to some studio monitors (probably Focal CMS 40, because of their build and compact form factor) and this will be my setup:

Schiit Modi Multibit > Schiit PYST RCA > Schiit Sys > Schiit PYST RCA > Schiit Vali 2

(How do I put the speakers behind the Sys? The Vali 2 will also be connected to the Sys. Am I using this system correctly to view the setup?)

Anyway, I will connect the studio monitors to the second RCA output of the Schiit Sys (used in reverse) for volume control. Most studio monitors have unbalanced RCA inputs and balanced XLR inputs if I'm correct. My question now is what is the best way to connect such a speaker? Completely unbalanced with standard RCA cables (like these)? Or a balanced XLR to unbalanced RCA cable (like these)?

What's the Sys for? The Vali2 already has a preamplifier output, you can connect the speakers there.

Also if the speakers have single-ended RCA input anyway then just use RCA to RCA cables.

Also, in my setup one of the speakers will be closer to the source than the other, do I buy 2 same length cables or do I buy 2 different lengths (shorter for one speaker)?

Same length and tidy up the one with excess length using cable ties.

 

[Frank161]

What's the Sys for? The Vali2 already has a preamplifier output, you can connect the speakers there.

I know, but now with my current setup without the Sys I have to lower the volume on the computer itself to even have some volume control on the Vali 2 with my current headphones (Phillips Fidelio X2HR), because those cans are too damn efficient. From what I've read, lowering the volume in Windows lowers the bitrate, which has a negative effect on the sound quality. Or are they (and myself) wrong about that?

Also if the speakers have single-ended RCA input anyway then just use RCA to RCA cables.

Thanks. So there is no benefit in a RCA to XLR cable?

Same length and tidy up the one with excess length using cable ties.

That does mean I have to take two 2 meter long cables and tie up one to become an 0.3 meter cable (the right speaker is right next to the source). But I should be able to tie it up under my desk.

 

[cossix]

RCA to any other termination won't make a difference. Have you thought of using WASAPI instead of DirectSound for your dac? It bypasses windows volume and allows for playback at the exact sample rate and bit depth, instead of re-sampling like windows DirectSound does. Perhaps that would fix your volume issue? Either way I like the idea of just using the pre-out on your existing amp and maybe using WASAPI drivers to see if that helps. Good luck!

 

[Frank161]

RCA to any other termination won't make a difference. Have you thought of using WASAPI instead of DirectSound for your dac? It bypasses windows volume and allows for playback at the exact sample rate and bit depth, instead of re-sampling like windows DirectSound does. Perhaps that would fix your volume issue? Either way I like the idea of just using the pre-out on your existing amp and maybe using WASAPI drivers to see if that helps. Good luck!

I haven't tried that yet and maybe will when I get back home. I did however already bought a used Sys and I can't cancel the purchase now anymore. I was just thinking on bypassing the pre-amp when using the studio monitors, that saves power and I don't know if I would hear the tube I use in the Vali 2.

 

[Music Alchemist]

What's the Sys for? The Vali2 already has a preamplifier output, you can connect the speakers there.

The SYS is a passive preamp that sounds better than many amps (including ones in DAC/amps) due to the fact that it has no electronics in it coloring the sound. The fact that the Vali 2 is tube instead of solid state makes it even more likely to color the sound.

I know, but now with my current setup without the Sys I have to lower the volume on the computer itself to even have some volume control on the Vali 2 with my current headphones (Phillips Fidelio X2HR), because those cans are too damn efficient. From what I've read, lowering the volume in Windows lowers the bitrate, which has a negative effect on the sound quality. Or are they (and myself) wrong about that?

Thanks. So there is no benefit in a RCA to XLR cable?

That does mean I have to take two 2 meter long cables and tie up one to become an 0.3 meter cable (the right speaker is right next to the source). But I should be able to tie it up under my desk.

Fun fact: With the Modi Multibit (or Chord 2Qute), I did not have to lower the volume aside from the volume knob on the SYS, but with the JDS Labs OL DAC, I have to lower the sensitivity switch and volume knobs on the back of the speakers along with my player's volume. (Otherwise it gets too loud too quickly.) I'm not sure why this is, because both of them output 2 volts. (While the 2Qute outputs 3.)

You don't need XLR, but it's so cheap you might as well try both and listen for yourself.

I use these XLR to RCA cables: https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=4777

I just let the cables hang off the back of a table, which I use as a desk. You'll figure something out.

For future reference, ASIO, WASAPI, and KS are all bit-perfect output modes that send the unaltered data of each file to the DAC. You'll need a compatible player and plugins, such as foobar2000.

You can read about audio output modes here: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes

 

[Frank161]

The SYS is a passive preamp that sounds better than many amps (including ones in DAC/amps) due to the fact that it has no electronics in it coloring the sound. The fact that the Vali 2 is tube instead of solid state makes it even more likely to color the sound.

That's why I want to bypass it. I want the cleanest (and most neutral) sound from the speakers, not for a particular reason. I was however planning on buying a Schiit LISST tube (solid state) and maybe also another real tube and compare both of them with my headphones. That way I can determine what sound I like the most. I bought the Vali 2 to get to know tubes a bit, but if I don't like tubes, I can just swap the tube and replace it with a LISST.

I just let the cables hang off the back of a table, which I use as a desk. You'll figure something out.

I like to keep all cables out of sight . My desk is by the wall and all my cables run underneath it.

For future reference, ASIO, WASAPI, and KS are all bit-perfect output modes that send the unaltered data of each file to the DAC. You'll need a compatible player and plugins, such as foobar2000.

So, if I understand correctly, those aren't system wide output modes, meaning I will have to set my volume separately in every application? What about Spotify, games and things like YouTube and such? Will they work with this?

 

[Music Alchemist]

So, if I understand correctly, those aren't system wide output modes, meaning I will have to set my volume separately in every application? What about Spotify, games and things like YouTube and such? Will they work with this?

Bit-perfect output is configured in your music player. Most applications do not support bit-perfect and default to Windows Direct Sound.

Music streaming services generally only support Direct Sound, via their browser streaming interface, but TIDAL also supports bit-perfect via its offline desktop app.

You can change your Windows audio settings by right-clicking the sound icon in the taskbar and clicking Playback devices, your DAC (which should be set as the default audio device), and Properties. Then go to the Enhancements tab and select Disable all enhancements, and go to the Advanced tab and select 16-bit / 44,100 Hz as the default format. You can also configure exclusive mode options there, which makes it so that a single application is the only one playing audio, muting all others. This is what bit-perfect tends to do as well. As long as you are using Red Book (16/44) files/content, this would be pretty much the same as bit-perfect, so whether you have bit-perfect is usually nothing to worry about, as you would normally not hear a difference anyway.

Bit-perfect has nothing to do with volume. If you want a system-wide digital volume control, you can click the sound icon in the taskbar and adjust the volume there.

In all cases, however, I would recommend keeping all digital volume at 100% and simply controlling the volume with the SYS or Vali 2. (And as you were planning, you could turn down the volume of the SYS when using the Vali 2 so it doesn't get too loud too quickly.)

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I know, but now with my current setup without the Sys I have to lower the volume on the computer itself to even have some volume control on the Vali 2 with my current headphones (Phillips Fidelio X2HR), because those cans are too damn efficient.

Is your Vali2 already on low gain mode?

if it is then use the Sys but hook up the speakers to the Vali2.

Thanks. So there is no benefit in a RCA to XLR cable?

You're still sending a single ended signal out of the Vali2 or the Sys, regardless of what plug is on the other end and what you hook it up to. Just use the SE input on the monitors.

That does mean I have to take two 2 meter long cables and tie up one to become an 0.3 meter cable (the right speaker is right next to the source). But I should be able to tie it up under my desk.

Yes. Not that there's going to be drastic differences in sound if you use unequal length cables but unless you can make them yourself you'll have to buy two pairs.

Also...how exactly is your system laid out if you need 2m vs 0.3m? Are you even sitting in the center-front of the two speakers? Are they angled up to you on the desk much less mounted at ear height?

 

[buke9]

For the speakers you definitely want the tweeters to be at ear level for the best sound and imaging. They make small ones for desktop speakers but I made my own when I had my desk setup and it made a huge difference in sound.

 

[Music Alchemist]

^ Yep, it's a good idea to isolate the speakers from desks and so on. Speaker stands can greatly improve the sound. The placement in the room affects the sound even more.

 

[Frank161]

Is your Vali2 already on low gain mode?

Yes, when I set it to high gain, there Is a constant hum in my headphones. I've read that's normal, because they are too easy to drive.

if it is then use the Sys but hook up the speakers to the Vali2.

Any particular reason why not just to the Sys? Also, when switching between high and low gain it also affects the volume on the speakers, I didn't know that.

Also...how exactly is your system laid out if you need 2m vs 0.3m? Are you even sitting in the center-front of the two speakers? Are they angled up to you on the desk much less mounted at ear height?

The Schiit equipment is right next to my right speaker, between my computer monitor stand and the right speaker. I would use a 2 meter cable for the left speaker, so I can hide the cable. The shortest path (but ugliest to the eye) to the left speaker is about 1 meter. I have holes in my desk to put the cables through and the hole for the left speaker (for the cleanes appearance) is even further to the left than the speaker itself.

For the speakers you definitely want the tweeters to be at ear level for the best sound and imaging. They make small ones for desktop speakers but I made my own when I had my desk setup and it made a huge difference in sound.

^ Yep, it's a good idea to isolate the speakers from desks and so on. Speaker stands can greatly improve the sound. The placement in the room affects the sound even more.

The Focal CMS 40's are the perfect height for me on my desk (with the included table stand). The room is awkwardly shaped, so I won't be able to improve that, maybe when I get my own place later I will really care about that.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Any particular reason why not just to the Sys? Also, when switching between high and low gain it also affects the volume on the speakers, I didn't know that.

That makes sense, since you're using the amp of the Vali 2. If you want to bypass double amplification, you'll have to use a passive preamp.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Any particular reason why not just to the Sys?

So that you can pull the headphones out of the socket and it automatically switches over to the speakers. Plug in a headphone and it automatically mutes the preamp output.

Also, when switching between high and low gain it also affects the volume on the speakers, I didn't know that.

The Schiit equipment is right next to my right speaker, between my computer monitor stand and the right speaker. I would use a 2 meter cable for the left speaker, so I can hide the cable. The shortest path (but ugliest to the eye) to the left speaker is about 1 meter. I have holes in my desk to put the cables through and the hole for the left speaker (for the cleanes appearance) is even further to the left than the speaker itself.
The Focal CMS 40's are the perfect height for me on my desk (with the included table stand). The room is awkwardly shaped, so I won't be able to improve that, maybe when I get my own place later I will really care about that.

I wasn't really asking about the position of your equipment relative to each other, I'm asking about your sitting position relative to the speakers. The relative position of the equipment, just gave me cause to ask because if there is that wide a disparity then I started wondering if you were sitting properly equidistant to both speakers. If you're looking at it all from the top, your speakers and your seat need to form an isosceles or equilateral triangle with the seat at the vertex point, not an obtuse triangle or a sideways isosceles. Even if you can't do anything about the room you still need to sit this way otherwise one speaker will be louder and you'll hear its output before the other, ditto not having them at ear height or angled since you won't be equidistant to both the tweeter and midwoofer on each side.

Sitting off-center in a nearfield set-up is kind of like upgrading speakers in a car but not using time alignment DSP to sync the output on every tweeter and midwoofer relative to the farthest driver (usually the subwoofer) and to each other, thereby making you hear enough differences. It won't be an obvious echo but the image will have the vocals off-center, everything else is screwed up, there can be sibilance when you hear one tweeter well ahead of even just the same side midwoofer, etc.

Basically since even with that more detailed description that lacks confirmation of whether you are forming an isosceles at the vertex does not make it clear to me that you are equidistant to each speaker, and if you are not, that's a waaaaaay bigger problem than anything else in the system right now.

That makes sense, since you're using the amp of the Vali 2. If you want to bypass double amplification, you'll have to use a passive preamp.

Even if he uses the Vali2 preamp outputs there will not really be any "double amplification." Not really even a "double preamplification" - knobs on studio monitors are gain, not full preamp circuits.

 

[Music Alchemist]

So that you can pull the headphones out of the socket and it automatically switches over to the speakers. Plug in a headphone and it automatically mutes the preamp output.

The SYS can be switched at the push of a button. I'd say that's easier.

Even if he uses the Vali2 preamp outputs there will not really be any "double amplification." Not really even a "double preamplification" - knobs on studio monitors are gain, not full preamp circuits.

What I meant was that the active speakers have amps inside them, and adding a headphone amp (and a tube one at that) is likely going to audibly color the sound compared to using a passive preamp. The point is that we're comparing electronics to no electronics, and obviously the latter is going to be more accurate in sending along the signal the DAC outputs. (Even if it's not always more audibly accurate.) I noticed a significant coloration in the sound when using the amps in DAC/amps with my speakers as opposed to using them in DAC only mode via the SYS.