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confused: how to get the most out of my dac with computer as source?

Jul 8, 2009 at 5:43 AM Post #31 of 66
Hmmm would the buffalo outperform the ayre on my list? The ayre i think has all those nice usb features so no need for a converter.
I dont think i want to go soundcard+dac, i really dont need a soundcard for anything and I could just as well either 1. buy a dac with the usb features or 2. buy a dac+a converter.
Greetings, Anouk,
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 1:46 PM Post #32 of 66
I also use a H120 optical as transport ^^ I think it is about on par with wavelab ASIO+"usb-audio" program on the computer (attached to a power conditioner). Have you tried using ASIO? If not I recommend you try setting up foobar 0.8.3+modified otachan ASIO build+asio4all (or usb-audio, sounds better than asio4all but trial version will have a 30 second beep-noise), and the sound quality is pretty close to the H120, just a little on the lean side esp. for bass. Imo different ASIO's and media players have different degrees of neutrality/detail, with wavelab ASIO being the best.

foobar 0.8.3+0.51.7 build can be found here
ASIO builds 2.0

asio4all
ASIO4ALL - Universal ASIO Driver

alternative to asio4all, has beep unless registered
USB Audio - the low latency experience

I think a usb to coax converter with good reclocking would be best though if you really want to use the computer as transport. But personally I'm going to avoid buying a transport until someone releases a super-H120 transport! Designed as meticulously as audiophile cd players but with all the convenience of a computer ^^.
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 2:17 PM Post #33 of 66
Well, I am confused now. If i use optical wouldnt that bypass the windows drivers, making it unneccessary to use asio for all? Also you are referring to an older version of foobar, why not use the most recent one? I have tried asio for all in the past but isnceI am blind I found it quite unaccessible with the screenreader which I am using.
I rather use as few driver programs as possible anyway so I would prefer going optical if that meant not having to use asio.
Greetings, Anouk,
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 3:03 PM Post #34 of 66
Optical output will only bypass windows kmixer if you have the software, same problem with usb output. I just looked at the off-ramp 3 and I wonder why it doesn't have native ASIO software, I believe it is necessary to use ASIO or WASAPI or Kernel Stream to bypass kmixer in this case. Maybe the m-audio transit mentioned by morfic would be a better option than the off-ramp 3 since it already comes with native asio drivers which is likely better than the generic asio4all drivers.

I suggested 0.8.3 because 0.9 and later do not support otachan asio which sounds better than the noname ASIO in 0.9. I think asio4all's software interface is buggy as hell and a pain to deal with so I suggest just using WASAPI or KS to bypass kmixer. I think WASAPI and KS are a viable alternative to ASIO, and of course sound better than the normal windows audio drivers.

edit: I'd also like to say I think usb transport can sound good, it's just computers have a lot of shortcomings such as noisy psu, which could be mitigated if you go wild upgrading the psu, isolating things inside the computer box, and getting a power conditioner, or maybe get a laptop known for its excellent transport quality. A computer may not be able to sound like a $500+ transport, but I bet it would be able to compare to $100 transports. The macbook is sort of popular with audiophiles, which also has the added benefit of not having to worry about getting ASIO/WASAPI/KS since the mac OS has a built-in low-latency audio driver. I'd like to compare a macbook optical out to the H120 optical out, but I suspect the difference would be pretty minor since I bet neither the H120 or macbook are designed with audiophile-level digital output in mind. And I am a little curious as to whether the off-ramp converter will offer a sound quality improvement over connecting directly by USB, for $700 you could buy an army of H120's and fill them with your FLAC's ^^. At least one person has put a 80gb ZIF drive (the mk8025gal) into the H120 by using an ZIF to IDE adapter, it's difficult but it makes the H120 a viable alternative to the computer unless you really have a huge music collection.
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 3:32 PM Post #35 of 66
Hello, I know the macbook pro has a built-in screenreader unfortunately I am quite sure it does not support my braille display since ithas no drivers for the mac. I just sold my iriver h120 because I want a pc-based solution. I am quite sure there was either a dac or a transport that did not need asio to work around the windows kernel. I am quite sure it did not need any software at all but I forgot which one it was.
A real bummer! I thought that if I used optical I could get around needing to use all that asio stuff....
I wonder if there are any other laptops that would do well. Currently I am planning to buy th easus n10j.
Greetings, Anouk,
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 4:50 PM Post #37 of 66
SPDIF over optical (Toslink), SPDIF over coax or USB
The most important difference is that none of them exist.
It are all standards, so a pile of highly technical papers.
Sonic (dis)advantages are by and large a matter of the implementation.
Toslink is considered to be high on jitter (LED’s are a bit slow) but it is very easy to build a jittery SPDIF over coax to.
The quality of the implementation on both of the boxes is what counts.
AES/EBU – the professional standard, if you ran very long lines, you need a strong signal and a balanced design to cancel out outside electro magnetical interference. Typical pro stuff, rock solid
SPDIF – domestic version of AES/EBU, lower signal, shorter distances, single source, cheaper
Toslink: SPDIF over optical, ideal as far as galvanic isolation is concerned, often jittery and to slow for high res audio.
USB: a lot of USB dac’s are limited to 16/48, go for the modern ones supporting 24 bit/96 kHz.

The type of connection has nothing to do with audio part of the PC.
If you do nothing at all, you simply get the K-mixer in XP or the mixer of Vista.
In case of XP you can go the ASIO way
In case of Vista you might try WASAPI, it bypasses all of Vista’s audio stack.
You need a player like Foobar or J River to be able to acces this driver.
The Well Tempered Computer

Keep in mind that a DAC is more than a choice between optical or electrical connection. The quality of the receiver, the filters, the DAC chipset itself, the analogue stage, all counts.

Personally I prefer USB. It is available on almost any computer. I think an USB dac is a very flexible solution.
Optical out you find on MAC and Toshiba laptops only
SPDIF in general requires a sound card

I suggest to listen to the Benchmark DAC 1 USB, it is a pretty famous DAC with a good price/performance ratio. It not only has USB input but Toslink, coax and XLR are also supported. Listen to it and use it as indeed, a benchmark.

QB9 by Ayre is interesting too, it has asynchronous USB (DAC is the master) and the USB is separated from the DAC by optocouplers. This should reduce jitter (asynchronous) and shield (optical) the DAC against all electrical noise from the PC.
The USB part is a drop-in board. As USB 3 and USB audio 2 are on their way, this allows you to upgrade.

Linux, I had a hard time to get my USB dac to work. However I can’t say that I heard sonic benefits compared with Vista and the interfaces of most Linux player reminds me of Win3, to primitive to my liking.
You can check my website if you want to know my Linux experience: The Well Tempered Computer
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 4:51 PM Post #38 of 66
With optical there is no need for asio. You still want to make the audio bitperfect which you can use Wasapi for. Its a smal plugin for vista that runs in any foobar and disables kmixer. I use it on my soundcard as well. The thing I like about the Bel Canto is there are no drivers, the chip is programmed so you just plugin and it autorecognizes and does bitperfect. It was designed for the new Bel Canto 3 DAC which had an upgrade to do all the fancy usb 24/96 but people with the last years model wanted that upgrade so they made the usb>bnc converter. Hope that helps at all.

My suggestions, get the Ayre QB-9 or something with atleast 24/96 usb compatibility. These ones with programmed chips don't need asio as much, but wasapi would definately help just to turn off kmixer
biggrin.gif
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 5:22 PM Post #39 of 66
The reason to use asio is the same reason to use wasapi when you're listening to music, to bypass the dreaded windows kmixer resampler. Imo there's many things I think can be done to improve computer as source such as cleaner power, shielding, different hardware and software, in other words a million variables, but so long as you bypass kmixer things sound tolerable enough for me.

It'd be very nice if the off-ramp could make a computer sound as good as an expensive transport, but unless there's customers reporting that I think it's risky. Audio-gd is also designing a converter and we might be seeing it available in 2-3 months, depending on how current testers like it. I want to buy it only if they say it can make an absolute improvement over what I'm getting right now with computer usb and H120 optical.
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 5:34 PM Post #42 of 66
asio is a solution for windows xp. more expansive and picky for usb/mixer/etc

If you use Vista, you just need wasapi, no asio unless you want to tweak a usb input.

Ayre would technically be better and a great solution, but I think the Buffalo32s will sound better so I have no problem dealing with finding a converter.
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 6:18 PM Post #44 of 66
usb-audio, or native asio drivers excluded, asio4all is just a pain on different gear.
 
Jul 8, 2009 at 6:39 PM Post #45 of 66
Quote:

Originally Posted by DoYouRight /img/forum/go_quote.gif
usb-audio, or native asio drivers excluded, asio4all is just a pain on different gear.


Ah, thanks, never used asio4all, it was asio on a Audiofire2.
 
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