confused: how to get the most out of my dac with computer as source?

[Anouk]

Hello, the next upgrade in my rig will be getting a new dac since I use my computer as soruce exclusively. I listen to it always when i am at home and use it as a stereo system. I play flac files through it. I used to have a headroom ultra desktop amp/dac which i connected through usb. Now I have an ibasso d10 which i connect via usb to my laptop, although I think optical with my iriver sounds better (althought hat is via lineout to my wa2. Now, my CURRENT laptop does not have spdiff so I woul dhave to conenct my new 3k dollar dac via usb, and I have heard that most dacs have a very lousy usb interface lacking 24 bit support (because you use it via drivers) and not having asymetric usb and having a lot of jitter. Anyway, it always seems to be worse then spdiff. So then I thought maybe i should get the dac with a usb to spdiff converter, some people told me that if I wanted to do that the only really good option would be this:
Off Ramp Converter > Products : Empirical Audio
I would then also have more choices in dac because this converter has multiple output and the dac itself does not have to have usb.
This all got me htinking though, why notjust get a laptop with optical and connect that do the dac directly, people say optical interface of most dac sounds very good. I wonder would this indeed sound as good as the seem solution as mentioned before? so laptop, usb to spdiff converter, dac, or laptop optical output dac, which would sound the best and get the best sound quality from my computer to the dac? I am not very technical and am totally stumped by this dilemma.
I would of course be using good usb and optical cables, but i also hear that i might have power ground loop issues via usb since it is not shielded or whatever. I am also not sure how good the usb or optical connections would be on my laptopsof choice.
Some help / clarification would be really appreciated sinc eI really dont know what road to take, i only know tha tI want to get the best possible audio from my computer based system (meaning not digital sounding).
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[digger945]

Hey!!!

I would really like to hear someone (perhaps an offramp owner) comment on the offramp some.

 

[Anouk]

Yes and ifpossible compare it to a source with optical output directly into the dac of choice vs the offramp solution!
Greetings, Anouk

 

[Anouk]

Bump, any more technical person then I who can help explain all this?

 

[morfic]

Laptop with optical out would be nice to hook up a dac with optical in.
You could also buy a card with USB in and optical out that you can then use to drive the dac with optical in.
I bought a M-Audio Transit to give my laptop an optical out. However the DAC chip inside asked me to listen to it, so for now, i enjoy the Transit as a cheap usb dac, at $72.99 shipped off ebay (I also had a 8% off coupon from ebay, so it was the cheapest solution for me to by from yogi-computer)
I refuse to pay more for a "transport" than what everything on this desk, including the laptop i am writing on is worth (After all, who ever recommends the Off-Ramp w/o a lot of upgrades?)
As long as i can not hear the jitter and all the evilness this Transit probably suffers from, why invest into something that corrects it?
I am not the technical person you asked for, i am more of a practical guy, neither my simple USB Box (16/44.1) nor my Transit (16/48 asynchronous, 24/96 adaptive) caused me to hear jitter, ground loops or excessive noise from the usb bus.
Either source's line out was connected to my Little Dot MkII's or I+'s line in, driving either D1001 or HD600, neither with the 32Ohm nor the 300Ohm phones could i hear any bus noise. I hear no jitter.
I may invest into Transit mods, since the design had size and portability in mind, no doubt, or get another dac later, using the optical out of the Transit to connect it. For now i am good. If i do or buy more, it's pure upgraderitis.
Be practical, if you don't understand the magic behind the $699-$999 pricetag, spend it on something else, or better yet, save it.
There is a lot of info to be found on google, read it, if you understand it and have the money and all you read makes sense to you, buy it, if your conclusion is "well X number of people say it is good, so it must be good"......don't bite.

The whole transport idea aside, if you have firewire or can afford the $20 for a firewire card (TI chipset), grab an ECHO Audiofire2 and hook that up to your headphone amp, for low impedance headphones, go and enjoy the Audiofire2's amazing sound quality 2 ways. And forget you ever heard of "DAC"s.

Just trying to offer an alternate view. Spend on what should do the job, if you have issues, look for a solution for that problem, if you can't hear issues, enjoy what you have.

 

[Anouk]

Well this still does not answer my basic question, is there a difference if i connect my dac directly to optical or use a usb converter in between, maybe the ramp, instead of investing in a laptop with optical because I do not have that at the moment just ol usb. As I said I want the best and am not afraid to pay for it i just am not prepared to do it uninformed or when it is not neccessary.
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[morfic]

From me, you get the answer: it's the same. Since there are people who buy the product you link to, fully maxed out, there are people who tell you it's worth it.
All you will get here is opinions and believes (mine and others).
IF the usb to optical is not good enough, the laptop is not going to be good enough either.
So as far as bad return on investment, the USB to optical (and/or coaxial) would cost you the least and devalue slower/less than a laptop....

How much does the dac cost that you would connect to the Off-Ramp? Found it, $3k DAC, sure what's another $1k on the little box that connects the computer to the dac of choice?
If you can demo the combination and it sounds better than lesser options....enjoy

I *believe* you will love the combo, i also *believe* you would love a combo somwhere between the D10 and your new Off-Ramp+Dac combo.

 

[1UP]

Optical's poo. Benefits of isolation from the noisy PC power are wiped out with crappy transmission and receiver implementations on most all gear.

For $3k + >$1-2k Off-Ramp thing you could get an Ayre QB-9 or Wavelength Coescant with async USB or Weiss DAC2 or Minerva (firewire) and forget about noisy PC power and S/PDIF altogether. AND have a world-class DAC.

 

[Hellenback]

If you are going anywhere near $6000 then buy this and call it a day!

PS AUDIO PERFECT WAVE TRANSPORT AND DAC

Actually the DAC alone would suffice for now (until they get "flac ready" with the transport)and that would only be $3000!

 

[Anouk]

Hello, well I was actually thinking about spending 3 k max the modded bel canto dac3 came close to mind, a secon hand one and then being modded by underwood hifi with audiophile parts. Also I want a dac with balanced outputs. But then i heard about all this usb problems and i realized that if I want to use that dac i either need 1. a source with optical 2. a usb to optical transport like the off ramp. I now hear that optical might not have the benefit sI was anticipating so maybe a converter is still the way to go.... thanks for that info 1up that was wha ti was looking for. I hate jitter and everything associated with it. But maybe i should indeed look at the higher end offerings with asymetric usb if they really negate the need for a converter (a slong as they have balanced outputs) on the other hadn the great thing about the bel canto dac 3 is that I know it will have all audiophile parts (in the modded version) so in contrast to all othe rmass market dacs and it has had some favourable reviews. Also if i go dac+converter it means i could upgrade in two steps, first using the dac as is and then later buying the converter to complete the system.
Choices, choices
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[paaj]

I just bought a teralink usb->spdif/i2s converter for use with a North Star m192 that should do the job. Found on ebay for $52 shipped

. I don't know if it'll be any better than straight optical out of a Mac Mini but I'll see, it's somewhere between seller and me now.
Onboard optical is nothing to write home about either, if you have to believe everything you read here, yet it sounds good already.

if you want to spend serious money on a converter, I believe Bel Canto offers a matching one.

 

[Anouk]

Hello! Please let us know what your thoughts are on straight usb, straight optical and the converter when you get it!
Thanks,
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[Currawong]

Jitter, from what I can tell, doesn't make the sound more digital-sounding, but makes it more muddy-sounding, that is, loses detail. The only two DACs I've listened with that don't sound digital to me are both PCM1704UK-based, that was the Nakamichi Dragon and the Audio-gd Reference 1. I unfortunately haven't listened with many DACs in the low thousands to compare extensively, other than the usual Northstar, DAC1 and DA-10.

 

[tim3320070]

The Musiland Monitor 01 does 24/192 via USB (real cheap to try). I use the Bel Canto USB 2496 Link ($300 used) and it sounded a bit better than the USB input of my V-DAC. I use the Reference-1 now with the BC and have zero complaints.

 

[satshanti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by paaj /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just bought a teralink usb->spdif/i2s converter for use with a North Star m192 that should do the job. Found on ebay for $52 shipped .

I ordered one of these myself and have already got it in operation. Please note though, that it handles 16bit/44.1(or 48)Khz only. This USB transport uses the Cmedia CM108 chip, and my main purpose was to get I2S out and hook it up directly to the TDA1543 chip in my NOS DAC. I haven't managed to do so yet, but even on SPDIF it is much better than the PCI card I used for that before.

This is true even more, now that I feed the converter with a relatively cheap ($10) 6V sealed lead acid battery. I use a 4.2 Ah which should last me about 20 to 30 hours of operation on the little power it uses. Also the designer confirmed that this is by far the cleanest power you can get. Funny enough, my best-sounding switch-mode power supply sounded even a bit worse than using the USB power, but the battery sounds great and constitutes incredible value for money.

The Teradac (Valab) converter uses a high-quality 1ppm clock, and it seems that some thought has gone into it. Considering that this box is basically the digital part of the well-received and reviewed Valab NOS DAC (see various threads), which to many people sounded best on USB, one cannot go wrong for the little money it costs to own one. I'm quite sure the Off Ramp probably sounds better, because a lot of research must have gone into the design, and reading some of Steve's posts and essays gave me a good impression, but that one is way out of my personal financial league.