confused: how to get the most out of my dac with computer as source?

[paaj]

16/44.1 is good for me, just CD quality stuff, but it is something to keep in mind if one wants to use higher quality files.
Anyway, it was cheap enough to try if a converter like this makes any difference with the onboard version and I was basically interested in the I2S option.

 

[1UP]

Most all these USB-S/PDIF converters (including the Bel Canto one) are more or less the same; and will eat out your budget with diminishing returns; low-mid-fi sound is almost guaranteed.

Without the computer being slaved to the DAC (via async USB or firewire), without a dedicated, regulated power supply and transformer output, you're not solving the problem of PC transports' noise and jitter at all. Also, I2S is no panacea - it's not meant to be running cms through CAT5, it's meant to be mm used internally within CDPs.

O/P, your budget allows you to get standalone DACs that solve the problem of PC audio at the same time as being great sounding units in their own right - look at the big picture. Run-of-the-mill converters and separate DACs are very much less than the sum of their parts, and still don't address the real causes as to why most PC systems can't match high-end one box players. It's not just a case of throwing money at the box and using a band-aid transport. There are good transports out there, but they're very expensive and cost more than the integrated solutions found in higher-end DACs which you can afford, so why not just skip all the transport headache and get something that does the interface right in the first place?

 

[Anouk]

Thanks 1up this is the kind of information I started the thread for, the main reason why i keep bothering with dacs that are not ideal in my situation is this:
Underwood HiFi high-performance modifications
(especially the level 2 mod for the dac3) I am totally not a diyer myself, this could mean that I could buy a used bel canto dac3 in the united states (which is good for me anyway because it is cheap to buy in usa), have it sent to udnerwood and let them mod it and change the voltage which is not switchable. As I said I am not a diyer but all those audiophil eparts that they will be installing do make me drool! I couls have something very good udner 3k, live with it for a while and then after a year or so buy a converter to put it to ist maximum capabilities.
Greetings, Anouk,
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1UP /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most all these USB-S/PDIF converters (including the Bel Canto one) are more or less the same; and will eat out your budget with diminishing returns; low-mid-fi sound is almost guaranteed. Without the computer being slaved to the DAC (via async USB or firewire), without a dedicated, regulated power supply and transformer output, you're not solving the problem of PC transports' noise and jitter at all. Also, I2S is no panacea - it's not meant to be running cms through CAT5, it's meant to be mm used internally within CDPs. O/P, your budget allows you to get standalone DACs that solve the problem of PC audio at the same time as being great sounding units in their own right - look at the big picture. Run-of-the-mill converters and separate DACs are very much less than the sum of their parts, and still don't address the real causes as to why most PC systems can't match high-end one box players. It's not just a case of throwing money at the box and using a band-aid transport. There are good transports out there, but they're very expensive and cost more than the integrated solutions found in higher-end DACs which you can afford, so why not just skip all the transport headache and get something that does the interface right in the first place?

 

[Anouk]

Hi, I htought it would be good to pos tmy current list of dacs which I am considering (must have balanced output asymetric usb and firewire and 24 bit support over usb would be nice),
audio note dac3 or dac4
audio aero prima dac
wavelength coscecant v3
electro-companiet ecd1
!ayre usb dac
!bryston bda-1
cyrus dac x
!bel canto dac3 (modded by underwood hifi)
empirical audio dac
apogee rosetta 220
North Star Design Model 192 MKII
chord 76
audio research dac7
Der beste 24Bit/192kHz DAC-Upsampler: hoer-wege DAC-UP-PCM1794 MK-II
\z converters I am considering the off ramp by empirical audio or the bel canto usb link
Greetings, Anouk

 

[1UP]

Damn, half that list doesn't look too spectacular to me. Please don't waste your money shipping at dac to the usa just for mods.

Get something right the first time!

 

[Anouk]

Well, that is the point, i woul dnot have to ship it to the usa, i would buy on there used and THEN send it to underwood for the mods and let them change the voltage, so i would have the seller ship it to udnerwood and underwood would ship it to me. I have heard from some people that the dac3 sounds better then the stello da220 and the stello in turn sounds better then the lavry da11 and the benchmark dac1.
I have heard that the electro-companiet on mylist sounds very musical but i find soundstaging and detail/imaging very important too as you can see in my sig.
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[tim3320070]

From what I understand, my Audio-gd Reference-1 uses it's DSP processor to reduce jitter considerably- part of the reason I went for it. I don't know enough to explain further but give it a look- those with more understanding should chime in here. However, I have never heard such fidelity in music from my lowly computer source (with the Bel Canto converter)-something is working right. A higher end CD transport is in my future though.

 

[1UP]

[size=x-small]The following details the Level-2 modifications for the Bel Canto DAC-3 [$1,200 + freight retrofit, $3,290 + freight preinstalled]:
[/size][size=x-small]Level-2 is a mod for both the RCA and XLR outputs.
[/size]

1. [size=x-small]1 x pair of premium WBT 0210-CU next gen RCA female jacks
   [/size]
2. [size=x-small]1 x sheet of ERS EMI/RFI suppression paper to the chassis.[/size]
3. [size=x-small]15 x BlackGate STD and FK grade PS caps, NX grade DAC PS Caps, and N grade output coupling capacitors[/size]
4. [size=x-small]4 x Riken Ohm ½ and one watt "signal path" 1% carbon comp. resistors with gold-plated leads [/size]
5. [size=x-small]4 x Cree Silicon-Carbide 1A 600V Schottky Diodes ultra-fast soft recover rectifying diodes in power supply; 4 x Visghay-Telefunken SF4007 ultra-fast soft recovery diodes[/size]
6. [size=x-small]We replace the inexpensive stock I-V op amps with world's best - Burr-Brown OPA-627 in a special single DIP module - 4 OPA-627s are used in total[/size]
7. [size=x-small]1 x Linear Technology LT1085 and 1 x Linear Technology LT1033 high current, ultra-low impedance positive and negative adjustable power supply regulators[/size]
8. [size=x-small]1 x Acme Audio Labs cryogenically-treated silver-plated 15A IEC AC inlet[/size]
9. [size=x-small]One 5x20mm 0.5A, slo-blo pure silver HiFi Tuning fuses (German made)[/size]
10. [size=x-small]4 pieces of DH LABS 99.999% pure solid-core long-grained silver output signal wires, with foamed Teflon tape wrap dielectric[/size]
11. [size=x-small]WBT high silver content (4%) solder is used throughout.[/size]
12. [size=x-small]6 hours total labor.[/size]

Just a big LOL /cry at this rubbish - IIRC Bel Canto use quad ICs for differential conversion; they know what they're doing there - don't waste twelve hundred bucks on this rip-off "service"

 

[Anouk]

Hello 1up, Maybe I shoul dindeed go for a good stock dac, do you know any of the ones in my list?
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[1UP]

Well, remember you must try to demo them; this could be hard for some of the American ones.

My personal predjucies would whittle your list down to simply the Wavelength, the Ayre and the Weiss DAC2.

Some of the others I'm just not that impressed by, plus they require you to spend so much on a good converter...it's poor value and will always leave you stymied if upgrading cause you'll still be limited by the transport.

 

[smuh]

Anouk: I do not have to add much, as 1UP brought up the most important thing that quite a lot of even the "audiophile" dacs come with a quite/very bad implementation of the USB interface.
I am currently upgrading my speaker rig and went to audition quite a bit of equipment but going through your list I could only think of Chord that is most probably available at some local dealers.

I am not sure how good the Squeezebox transporter is, but IIRC you could probably control remotely through a webinterface.
Other than that there could be something nice out there from NAIM.

Another option could be a soundcard like a RME Hammerfall etc. and I think I have read about somebody on head-fi who was using his soundcard for a digital out only but including a clock signal to sync with his DAC.

Good luck finding the right gear,
Andre

 

[1UP]

Anouk, I had one last suggestion, as you have the cash and are in the Netherlands.

It's the full DAC, I/V, power supply and regulator kit from Erno Borbely (legendary analog circuit designer). This is OTT engineering top to bottom; and allows a fully balanced configuration with EIGHT (!) PCM1704 DACs. The interesting thing about this kit is the integrated S/PDIF output on the DAC board. This allows you to slave the transport to the DAC (i.e. any soundcard with word clock input, like the pro-cards from Emu, RME, Lynx), similar to this outline of "clock injection" for a computer transport. Nixing jitter, as well as offering SOTA power supply and analog stage circuitry, well beyond the means of commercial offerings at the same price range.

Should be within your budget - perhaps $3k using current USD/Euro exchange rates.

I should think Borbely can construct it for you and I would try this if I had the cash to splash!

 

[Anouk]

Hey 1up, yes I was quite curious if there were no good diydacs in my budget or someone could construct one, i mean if you let something be diymade you can decide for yourself what gest put in there right and I guess i might get something better then the commercial offerings at that pricepoint. I have done some eresearch into demoing stuff but it just is not really possible, not many stores nearby at all.
But, for this thing to work i woul dstill need a soundcard, i cant just connect it to usb? And is it a proper dac or a transport only.
Smuh, nice to hear from you! I have been thinking about the squeezebox (having the seem idea as you actually) and I did read it can be controlled by web interface so that might be accessible to me. I heard from sleepyone that the squeezebox isnt too good and htat lot soef people modify/upgrade it. I dont know much about it though since there does not seem to be much info about it on head-fi, which is the only forum I do frequently visit.
Thanks for the help and clarifications! I tend to try and get the ideal product for my situation (without demoing mostly)
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[1UP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anouk /img/forum/go_quote.gif But, for this thing to work i woul dstill need a soundcard, i cant just connect it to usb? And is it a proper dac or a transport only.

It's a standalone DAC; you'd need a transport with S/PDIF or I2S output.

The pro cards would act as the transport; what is unique is that the Borbely DAC can act as the master clock as these cards accept a word clock input.

The Slimdevices Transporter can also do this; or act as a standalone DAC, but that's most your budget again.

 

[DoYouRight]

This is my dilemna also, how to connect a Buffalo32s and B22 to my computer (LAPTOP) the best way? Would that BelCanto USB be the ticket? Just a little more than an EMU0404 and I wouldnt need to mod it and it already has BNC 1UP?

That or toss the Buffalo and get an AYRE. But I think the buffalo outperforms the AYRE. But regardless I HAVE FINALLY gotten to a point I can relax and know how to get this working

Let me know oppinions on Bel Canto USB LINK > Buffalo32s VS AYRE QB-9 USB?