[hifimanrookie]

The only thing that surprises me on this thread with all the talk of treble, is that no-one one has mentioned how good the HE500's treble is? In my experience of owning both RS1 and HE500 and really loving them both. The hifimans really do wipe the floor with the Grado's in the treble department. Yes the Grado's do add a nice edge when they exaggerate the texture of electric guitar for instance (maybe J Cash's voice too?), but really.. Try listening to acoustic instruments and then if anyone cannot hear which is more life-like and natural between the two, then I'm afraid they must have some hearing damage. I didn't find the treble on the RS1's that bright, but for me it was the hardness that is there in the upper mids and this made the timbre of acoustic instruments sound artificial. I appreciate what the Grado's do but I couldn't say they were better than the HE500's with SQ. I used my RS1's as a fun phone for portable use once I got the hifimans, as I couldn't use them for serious listening anymore.  

Well said! I totally agree with this.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerg /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
That is their strength. They are well-rounded and perform well, but not exceptionally, in most aspects. That coupled with their forgiving neutral-warm tonality means they are a natural upgrade to HD650 (which are preferred over flagships by many, also for their well-roundedness).
 
People can find things to complain about every headphone, even the most well-regarded TOTL ones (e.g. you could spot a few threads complaining about SR009's slight brightness here, as an example of many). Headphones along the lines of HD650 and HE500s are rare in that you just put them on and have the music take its course without being distracted by the headphones' strengths and flaws, because they sound so "average", nice and smooth.
 
That is a really attractive trait to many, who just want a pair of headphones that make them not having to pay attention to the headphones when they are using them.

 
It's interesting you should describe the HE-500 that way, Jerg, particularly the last sentence, because that's how I feel about the DT880. The HE-500 is very even and digs out details, but I never feel as relaxed as I do with the DT880. Somehow the latter just seems right, and did so from the moment I put it on (save for the treble bump, which oddly seems to have gone away). It may seem slightly blurred in comparison with the HE-500, but it doesn't have what I've described as a slightly cavernous sound like the HE-500, as if there were walls all around from which the sound was reverberating.
 
I can't explain why my impression of the HE-500 differs so much from others, but it's not the first time I've been out on a limb. Years ago I used to champion the HD595 as a terrific mid-priced phone when others were calling it "boring". I still have a pair and took another listen in comparison to the DT880 and HE-500 and was surprised at its basic honesty: it's as good as I remembered, and to my ears far better than the HD598 (which I owned and sold). It's nice to be in with the majority, but you can't lie about what you hear.  

 

[jtinto]

I'd love to try the HE-500 in my system
I'll try to pop into Headfoneshop to see what they're all about
It's great that a headphone retail shop is getting established in Toronto

 

[jerg]

Quote:

 
It's interesting you should describe the HE-500 that way, Jerg, particularly the last sentence, because that's how I feel about the DT880. The HE-500 is very even and digs out details, but I never feel as relaxed as I do with the DT880. Somehow the latter just seems right, and did so from the moment I put it on (save for the treble bump, which oddly seems to have gone away). It may seem slightly blurred in comparison with the HE-500, but it doesn't have what I've described as a slightly cavernous sound like the HE-500, as if there were walls all around from which the sound was reverberating.
 
I can't explain why my impression of the HE-500 differs so much from others, but it's not the first time I've been out on a limb. Years ago I used to champion the HD595 as a terrific mid-priced phone when others were calling it "boring". I still have a pair and took another listen in comparison to the DT880 and HE-500 and was surprised at its basic honesty: it's as good as I remembered, and to my ears far better than the HD598 (which I owned and sold). It's nice to be in with the majority, but you can't lie about what you hear.  

 
The cavernous thing you noted could be due to the upper mids / lower treble dip around 6-7kHz
 

 
Broadband recession in that area tend to create a "laid-back" effect evident with HE400, but with HE500s it's a much smaller and narrower recession so it could cause nothing more than the slight colouration you describe where things don't sound fully forward and blaring, but a bit more cave-y.
 
Not many people mind it though, you are one of the only two people I've seen who complained about it; of all FR recessions, recession at upper mids (decreases forwardness), and at upper treble (decreases tizz / microsparkles) are the most benign, and HE500s have both of those. If a person is not being bothered by any particular aspect of a sound signature then it becomes melded away, in your case you ARE being bothered by an attribute so all I can say is HE500's sound signature does not complement well with you.
 
DT880s are indeed quite neutral save for the upper mids / lower treble hill (a colouration that is opposite of HE500).

 
A rule of thumb I've read somewhere though states that a boosted frequency tends to be much more intrusive than a recessed one, especially when in narrow bands, which means the ability for you to adjust to that frequency emphasis of DT880 is not likely to work with most people.

 

[lyrill]

it has occured to me yesterday in dream--if headphone to some is about putting it on and forget about the world--how can you forget about the world with like pounds of weight jammin on your head?
 
just my one reason why i returned the he500. sound is another story

 

[jerg]

Quote:

it has occured to me yesterday in dream--if headphone to some is about putting it on and forget about the world--how can you forget about the world with like pounds of weight jammin on your head?
 
just my one reason why i returned the he500. sound is another story

The secret to making Hifiman headphones half-way comfortable is to work on the headband. Personally I use a Beyer/Hifiman/Senn-compatible headband clip-on cushion, and extensively flexed the headband itself to reduce its clamping rigidity. The comfort level went from a 2/10 to 9/10 over the course of 2 weeks during which I gradually did this. As for coping the sheer weight, that comes down to upper body fitness 

.

 

[hifimanrookie]

Quote:

The secret to making Hifiman headphones half-way comfortable is to work on the headband. Personally I use a Beyer/Hifiman/Senn-compatible headband clip-on cushion, and extensively flexed the headband itself to reduce its clamping rigidity. The comfort level went from a 2/10 to 9/10 over the course of 2 weeks during which I gradually did this. As for coping the sheer weight, that comes down to upper body fitness 

.

i have same over headband thingie...it really makes big difference on the comfort!

 

[pp312]

Quote:

 
DT880s are indeed quite neutral save for the upper mids / lower treble hill (a colouration that is opposite of HE500).

 
A rule of thumb I've read somewhere though states that a boosted frequency tends to be much more intrusive than a recessed one, especially when in narrow bands, which means the ability for you to adjust to that frequency emphasis of DT880 is not likely to work with most people.

 
 
I was initally aware of the treble peak, as I expected to be, but I no longer seem to be hearing it to anything like the same degree, and now just -2b on the treble control gets me a subjectively even response. Could burn in have been at work here, or has my 66 year-old hearing deteriorated even further in the last two weeks?  
 
As for your theory on the HE-500, I'm not at all sure a dip is what I'm hearing. I'd have said it sounds like a resonance, but since no one else seems able to hear it that theory may have to be shelved. I'll continue my investigation.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

 
 
I was initally aware of the treble peak, as I expected to be, but I no longer seem to be hearing it to anything like the same degree, and now just -2b on the treble control gets me a subjectively even response. Could burn in have been at work here, or has my 66 year-old hearing deteriorated even further in the last two weeks?  
 
As for your theory on the HE-500, I'm not at all sure a dip is what I'm hearing. I'd have said it sounds like a resonance, but since no one else seems able to hear it that theory may have to be shelved. I'll continue my investigation.

Just making sure, you are indeed using velour earpads on the HE500s right? Pleathers and I bet other more sealing earpad varieties will introduce additional resonance.

 

[pp312]

Tried the velours several times, found the pleathers sound, as I posted in another thread, more balanced and homogeneous. Kept reading that the velours were better, kept changing back to the velours to check, but nope, to these ears the pleathers romp home.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Tried the velours several times, found the pleathers sound, as I posted in another thread, more balanced and homogeneous. Kept reading that the velours were better, kept changing back to the velours to check, but nope, to these ears the pleathers romp home.

Yeah I'm using pleathers too because I like the sound and comfort, BUT it is a fact that the velours reduce the majority of resonance / "cupped" issues of Hifiman cans, because they left excess sound out from the sides rather than keeping them in.

 

[pp312]

Forgive me, jerg, I'm a touch confused. Are you saying the velours sound better because they damp any resonances but you still prefer the sound of the pleathers?
 
In any case, I'm not convinced about that. I've tried both and the velours sound no less "cupped" to me; I think it's just a signature of the phones, or else the phones' interaction with my ears. Also I've listened to a lot of phones with pleather pads (been using headphones since 1969) and never noticed any consistent resonance. I think I'll wait till someone can show me a photo of sound waves bouncing around pleather pads.  

 

[hifimanrookie]

Tried the velours several times, found the pleathers sound, as I posted in another thread, more balanced and homogeneous. Kept reading that the velours were better, kept changing back to the velours to check, but nope, to these ears the pleathers romp home.

This is so funny..i owned the he300 and he400 and for both i preferred pleather over velours..as that made the sound more intimate and less sharp and more full.somehow i went from pleather to velours on my new he500..as i loved the sound being a bit more open and less dark..maybe its because the phone wasnt burned in yet..i will try later if i still like the velours over the pleather as its now burned in

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Forgive me, jerg, I'm a touch confused. Are you saying the velours sound better because they damp any resonances but you still prefer the sound of the pleathers?
 
In any case, I'm not convinced about that. I've tried both and the velours sound no less "cupped" to me; I think it's just a signature of the phones, or else the phones' interaction with my ears. Also I've listened to a lot of phones with pleather pads (been using headphones since 1969) and never noticed any consistent resonance. I think I'll wait till someone can show me a photo of sound waves bouncing around pleather pads.  

Yep. The pleathers are more comfortable, and give a "wetter" sound due to its lowered damping which I quite enjoy even though it might not be objectively cleaner-sounding.
 
"I think I'll wait till someone can show me a photo of sound waves bouncing around pleather pads.  " Whatever you say bro.

 

[hifimanrookie]

Yep. The pleathers are more comfortable, and give a "wetter" sound due to its lowered damping which I quite enjoy even though it might not be objectively cleaner-sounding.

"I think I'll wait till someone can show me a photo of sound waves bouncing around pleather pads.  
" Whatever you say bro.

Photo of soundwaves bouncing around pads?????? I am maybe to simple to understand it...but..Jerg..Do u know what he means?
Merry christmas by the way!