[Fitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckickflip /img/forum/go_quote.gif i run Slackware, so I haven't had to upgrade my PC for ages!

I used to run Slack but at one point when Pat's eccentricity started to make me worry for the future of it I jumped ship to Arch Linux instead. I like it better.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

These threads are insane.

Cash: I will give you all the answers you asked on this issue, and that will be that. We can then let this thread float away on a burning viking longboat like it should have pages ago...

Higher percentage of PC failures (HD and other hardware) vs. Mac = MYTH (hardware failure in a properly treated computer has NO end user causation; in other words **** happens)

Macs are safer than PCs regarding viruses = who wants to write a virus/malware for a 10% marketshare? Those people want chaos; 10% chaos is no fun. 90% chaos = more fun.

Macs use different hardware than PCs = Utter crap. Same manufacturers, same HDs, and mostly same motherboard designs (Mac=OEM just like HP and Dell; OEM motherboards are proprietary to ensure comatibility)

Macs are easier to use than PCs = Personal preference. I like Windows, always have, always will. It does what I want, it has the software I want, and I do not mind the more "complex" nature of it. This is more of a Honda vs. Toyota argument: both are good cars, just pick one and be happy. My beef with Mac is hardware. I want to build my OWN computer with the exact parts I want, and I will deal with any compatibility issue I come across. And by the way, I have been through a LOT of hardware, and the only compatibility issue I have had was an M-Audio Revo 5.1 on XP64. Nothing but BSODs, but it was a driver conflict.

And the final point (but most important):

Windows is more prone to crashing than OSX = Says who? Those who know what they are doing never have problems with Windows crashing. Again, with a 90% marketshare, of course there are more people bitching about Windows crashing. There are more people who are in over their heads using Windows than OSX. The problem with most computer users is that they never learn from their mistakes; they just want their problems fixed. They know nothing about their OS other than it looks pretty and it does what they want. There are ignorant people using both Windows and OSX; there are just more using Windows, hence the visceral feeling (and complete lack of logical thought) of Windows somehow being inferior than OSX. Both are good, both have their strengths and weaknesses. Pick one and learn about it.

 

[Jasper994]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cash68 /img/forum/go_quote.gif You guys. I am not talking about driver issues. I am talking about threads like the ones on the front page right now, where some guy was using his computer then POOF it went all dumb, and he has to reinstall windows because his hard drive has bad sectors.

I haven't read the thread you're referring to, but in many cases a completely buggered up system is due to driver issues. Remember Apple/Mac limits the hell out of what hardware they'll work with which also limits potential problems. A well designed system, PC or Mac, will have very few problems.

Consider also that PCs have to deal with the Average Joe buyer. Apple with it's niche market can sell you a $3000 computer that has nice quality parts in it (although they still cut a remarkable number of corners considering the price). The majority of PCs on the other hand are made with bargain basement crap for parts because the average PC buyer is looking for a bargain basement price. They'll often spring for a faster chip or maybe a little more RAM, but try to convince them that the power supply should cost more than $2.99 and you'll find it's quite difficult. Plain and simple, you're appealing to different markets. Best as I can tell (my observations) the average PC these days sells for under $1000 compared to >$2000 for Apples.

Another thing to consider is the sheer number of computers out there that are PCs vs. Macs. If only 1% of people using a PC have issues, that's still a hell of a lot of people that are pissed off and complaining. On the other hand, 1% of Mac users is a pretty small number easily overlooked.

 

[cash68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz /img/forum/go_quote.gif cash: nobody cares, really.

One person does. He backed up this thread on his server, and voted for it by himself three times on Digg!

 

[olblueyez]

The system with the most crashes will have the most corrupt data and need more new installs. BUT, who really cares, I like to build my own boxes, its more fun and with carefully selected parts you should have a machine that will last you a long time. I have a 1TB NAS and Acronis, if I loose my OS, I will be back in action in a few hours. Oh, cash, your right about everything none else makes a valid point so now this can die off and be relegated to the anal's of HF history.

 

[cash68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif These threads are insane. Cash: I will give you all the answers you asked on this issue, and that will be that. We can then let this thread float away on a burning viking longboat like it should have pages ago... Higher percentage of PC failures (HD and other hardware) vs. Mac = MYTH (hardware failure in a properly treated computer has NO end user causation; in other words **** happens)

I'm not so sure. In my experience, I've owned 9 apple computers, and 2 PCs. I had one minor failure with the apple products, but two major failures with the windows machines. I would think this would be just a freak thing, but the majority of my friends, who use PCs, also generally suffer from HD failures, corrupted systems, and have to wipe it clean and start over. Hence the thread... I was wondering if the way windows pages to a disk could possibly explain the increase in HD failure that I've noticed around my group of friends (ie: could be different in your experiences. I am not saying that what I've experienced is what everyone else has experienced, nor that one system is better than the other. Those are the things that ComputePro was trying to morph my original inquiry into, which I still have not said).

Quote:

Macs are safer than PCs regarding viruses = who wants to write a virus/malware for a 10% marketshare? Those people want chaos; 10% chaos is no fun. 90% chaos = more fun.

Duh. I haven't even mentioned this issue. So..... maybe you should be pointing this section of your response towards other people?

Quote:

Macs use different hardware than PCs = Utter crap. Same manufacturers, same HDs, and mostly same motherboard designs (Mac=OEM just like HP and Dell; OEM motherboards are proprietary to ensure comatibility)

Again I agree with you. This was even largely the same for PPC macs; they used common hard drives, ram, sometimes videocards, and other components. If you want to argue this one, take it up with ComputerPro. He claims macs will start on fire, slit your wrists, and used different hardware.

Quote:

Macs are easier to use than PCs = Personal preference. I like Windows, always have, always will. It does what I want, it has the software I want, and I do not mind the more "complex" nature of it. This is more of a Honda vs. Toyota argument: both are good cars, just pick one and be happy. My beef with Mac is hardware. I want to build my OWN computer with the exact parts I want, and I will deal with any compatibility issue I come across. And by the way, I have been through a LOT of hardware, and the only compatibility issue I have had was an M-Audio Revo 5.1 on XP64. Nothing but BSODs, but it was a driver conflict.

I think the "ease of use" argument stems from the limited hardware choices of macs. No driver issues, generally **** just works. I get extremely frustrated with troubleshooting issues where something is supposed to work, but doesn't, so I've decided to avoid the issues associated with running a PC full time. I've done so in the past, and in my experience, it wasn't worth it. I was spending way to much time troubleshooting things and pulling my hair out over things that SHOULD have worked, but didn't for some reason. That said, I would LOVE it if I could build my own machine with my own parts and have it run OSX, I just don't trust that I've got the l33t skillz to save the day if something breaks, and I rely on my machine for my job...so... I'm sticking with the 80% OSX, 20% windows usage that I have going on right now.

And the final point (but most important):

Quote:

Windows is more prone to crashing than OSX = Says who? Those who know what they are doing never have problems with Windows crashing. Again, with a 90% marketshare, of course there are more people bitching about Windows crashing. There are more people who are in over their heads using Windows than OSX. The problem with most computer users is that they never learn from their mistakes; they just want their problems fixed. They know nothing about their OS other than it looks pretty and it does what they want. There are ignorant people using both Windows and OSX; there are just more using Windows, hence the visceral feeling (and complete lack of logical thought) of Windows somehow being inferior than OSX. Both are good, both have their strengths and weaknesses. Pick one and learn about it.

Or pick both, use both, learn about both, notice a difference between them, ask about the difference on head-fi, then get flamed by people with insecurity issues. >shrug<

 

[Fitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cash68 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or pick both, use both, learn about both, notice a difference between them, ask about the difference on head-fi, then get flamed by people with insecurity issues. >shrug<

Yeah c'mon people, our good buddy cash68 is the real victim here. This is what happens when you try to ask those naughty "PC zealots" a simple and neutral question... especially distressing when you consider our friend has absolutely no history whatsoever of making inflammatory remarks or deliberately trying to cause trouble.

 

[Computerpro3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cash68 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again I agree with you. This was even largely the same for PPC macs; they used common hard drives, ram, sometimes videocards, and other components.

Cash, you know damn well (at least I hope you do) that when we are talking about PPC macs being different than the current ones, we mean the heart of the systems - the CPU and motherboard (mainly the motherboard, as that houses the hard drive controller) . Of course things like fans and hard drives are going to work in both systems (and I've said this multiple times in the thread).

Now logically, seeing as the hardware is nearly identical between newer Mac's and PC's, the only variable left is the software.

The bottom line is that if you knew anything about how computer's work in general, you would know that outside of a few exotic circumstances, software simply cannot cause physical failure of a hard drive.

That's the end of the discussion. There's no if's, and's, or but's about it. At a basic level, all that hard drives do is change the state of magnetic material. It's all either 0's or 1's. The hard drive doesn't give a crap if you're running OSX or Vista or even Windows ME. You can change the write order of the 1's and 0's however you want, but there is no magical combination that causes physical failure, as no matter what order or how you write them, the hard drive is still operating within the capacity that it is designed to do - write 1's or 0's.

Is that really so difficult to understand? You parrot the same crap so many times that it feels like I'm talking to a freaking African Grey, with the exception that the African Grey actually has a basic level of comprehension and can learn and adapt.

Quote:

Or claim to pick both, claim to use both, pretend to learn about both, imagine you notice a difference between them, start a flamebait thread about the difference on head-fi, then get flamed by people with knowledge. >fellate Steve Jobs<

Fixed.

And in summation to this thread,

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cash68 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not so sure. In my experience, I've owned 9 apple computers, and 2 PCs. I had one minor failure with the apple products, but two major failures with the windows machines. I would think this would be just a freak thing, but the majority of my friends, who use PCs, also generally suffer from HD failures, corrupted systems, and have to wipe it clean and start over. Hence the thread... I was wondering if the way windows pages to a disk could possibly explain the increase in HD failure that I've noticed around my group of friends (ie: could be different in your experiences. I am not saying that what I've experienced is what everyone else has experienced, nor that one system is better than the other. Those are the things that ComputePro was trying to morph my original inquiry into, which I still have not said).

It's possible that you and your circle of friends are doing something horrifically wrong with your PCs. If probability can't explain it, there's likely a reason why your set of experiences are severely out of line with the general power user experience.

 

[cash68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Computerpro3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now logically, seeing as the hardware is nearly identical between newer Mac's and PC's, the only variable left is the software.

EXACTLY. Hence my question. I've seen a lot more failures when running windows on my own machines, as well as my friends. So no, software cannot "KILL" a HD, but if an OS writes to it 50 times when another OS only does it 10... wouldn't the hard drive last longer if it was used LESS? Again, I'm asking about the possibility of a paging file in windows.... maybe it is written to more often, even when you have a ton of ram, but in OSX, it doesn't? I don't really know. Hence my original question.

And yes, there is the possibility that they are identical and I've had strange luck, as well as my friends. I am not saying Apple computers are inherently more reliable. At all. I am asking questions based on my experiences.

 

[cash68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's possible that you and your circle of friends are doing something horrifically wrong with your PCs. If probability can't explain it, there's likely a reason why your set of experiences are severely out of line with the general power user experience.

I would think so too...but most are engineers. Some comp-sci, some electrical, some mechanical. All pretty solid guys. I don't get it.

 

[olblueyez]

How many times have you been told how many more PC's there are than Macs? If one OS is more prone to crashing then it will corrupt more data and dump more OS's but it wont damage hardware any faster. You know someone told me if you stare at P0 rn constantly it will make your harddrive last longer.

 

[TheMarchingMule]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif You know someone told me if you stare at P0 rn constantly it will make your harddrive last longer.

Oh, that could have been me.

 

[John E Woven]

cash68, know why your friends and their pc's seem to have more hdd failures than macs?

They don't. Look at statistical evidence with a larger sample size. Not just your small group of friends, but more like the total rma rates from seagate or WD.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Windows is more prone to crashing than OSX = Says who? Those who know what they are doing never have problems with Windows crashing. Again, with a 90% marketshare, of course there are more people bitching about Windows crashing. There are more people who are in over their heads using Windows than OSX. The problem with most computer users is that they never learn from their mistakes; they just want their problems fixed. They know nothing about their OS other than it looks pretty and it does what they want. There are ignorant people using both Windows and OSX; there are just more using Windows, hence the visceral feeling (and complete lack of logical thought) of Windows somehow being inferior than OSX. Both are good, both have their strengths and weaknesses. Pick one and learn about it.

From personal experience. Admittedly, I don't know what I'm doing with Windows. Neither do I have admin privileges, either.

At work, there is a team of five people, a network with over 200 machines and I believe a healthy six figure budget for all things IT.

My Windows XP (SP2) box goes down about every day.

The Windows XP boxes my friends there use go down about every day.

I am not making this up. The machines freeze and hang all the time. I haven't seen as many BSODs since we went to SP2.

Their care and feeding ain't my problem, so I have no idea what's going wrong with Windows, but something does every day. Whenever a critical deadline comes up, I take the MacBook in and work from that. I trust OS X when something has to get done.

At home, I maintain OS X and Linux myself. No problems. I also keep around a couple of vintage Macs - a IIfx and a SE/30 - running System 6 with no troubles. Same with a NeXT Cube and a SGI box. No problems.

I'm not trying to fan the flames, but I hope you can understand why I have zero interest in running Windows.