COMPARISON / REVIEW: A tale of two flagships (part deux) – Beyerdynamic T1 vs AKG K812

[Brooko]

  If T1's balanced and natural sound signature fits your aural requirements, as it fits mine as well, then you will find LCD2/ V1/V2 as unacceptably unnatural and 'dark'.
Yours is a pretty good summing up of T1 but I have to add a note - I could not find out what the output impedance [o.i.] of Little Dot MkIV is but considering that this amp accommodates headphones with 32 Ohm impedance this indicates that its output impedance is too low for T1. On amplifiers with low .o.i. T1 sounds a bit thinner. On an amp with the o. i. of at least 100 Ohm T1's voice deepens, there is more bass quantity. The tones also gain more weight. The amplifiers which Beyerdynamic makes for its 600 Ohm headphones have 100 Ohm impedance output. 
In your review you did not do impedance matching for T1.

 
Thanks for the thoughts on the LCDs - I think I'll have to listen to them at some stage, but I guess that was what I was expecting though.
 
AFAIK the LD MKIV is around 40-50 ohms on the output impedance.  It is a true OTL - so ideally suited for the T1. It's probably not ideal for the lower impedance K812 though - although when I tried the AKG on both my NFB-12 (very low OI) and compared to the LD, there really wasn't that much of a sonic difference.
 
And I didn't do impedance matching on the amps - because if I want to run the two headphones through the same gear for a side-by-side match, there is no amp that will supply  a correct damping factor (according to your theory of T1 needing 100 ohm+).
 
I find your theory of needing at least 100 ohms OI for the T1 intriguing.  I understand the theory behind a too low damping ratio - but not so much too high.  As long as the headphone is getting enough voltage and current it shoudl be fine.  LD MKIV delivers both to the T1.  I've never felt that it has been bass light or thin on my system.

 

[Brooko]

  Good job on the review. The cable is one of the biggest letdowns of the K812, not sure what they were thinking, would of been nice if they put a higher quality and somewhat beefier cable on it. You may or may not be a cable believer, I believe in analog cables and I found when I heard the K812 with a better cable it helped with some of the treble refinement issues that crop up from time to time, system matching also helps, it has that classic AKG fickleness as I like to call it. I personally would get the K812 or T1 over the HD 800 due to preference, I'll likely end up with the T1 unless the price of the K812 gets closer to the T1 levels, I can get a new T1 for around $850 if I'm patient, may end up with one next year if that's still the case. The new dynamic trio are the cream of the crop in terms of dynamics, only the discontinued R10 was truly better to my ears than these three.

 
Thanks for the kind words.  Nope - definitely not a cable believer.  Tried a few different cables with Sennheisers, Beyers and Grados, a couple with AKGs - I've never heard a difference. I mostly change due to aesthetics (length, quality, malleability). Lets not go there though - I'm quite happy if people have their own beliefs/experiences.  Better to let that discussion/debate go 

.
 
Totally agree with you on the price - and when it reaches an acceptable level - I would still likely purchase the K812.  There's just something about its presentation ......

 

[Brooko]

@plakat
@DisCHORDDubstep
 
@Rhamnetin
 
Thanks for the kind words gents.  I think you'd find the K812 quite close to HD800 on soundstage - but again different.  The K812 would be larger but more diffuse, and the HD800 would be a little smaller but far more accurate and refined. That's from memory only though.

 

[kman1211]

   
Thanks for the kind words.  Nope - definitely not a cable believer.  Tried a few different cables with Sennheisers, Beyers and Grados, a couple with AKGs - I've never heard a difference. I mostly change due to aesthetics (length, quality, malleability). Lets not go there though - I'm quite happy if people have their own beliefs/experiences.  Better to let that discussion/debate go 

.
 
Totally agree with you on the price - and when it reaches an acceptable level - I would still likely purchase the K812.  There's just something about its presentation ......

No problem. Ah I see. Cables were simply a curiosity for me so I decided to try them, turned out they made a difference for me, although relatively mild. True, the discussions do get out of hand.
 
Honestly I think the price is too steep on many flagships, but that's how many hobbies are, exponential price increases the higher you go. I don't really feel comfortable paying full price for the HD 800, T1, or K812. I'll simply look elsewhere for a compromise if I can't get a good deal on any of them. That is true, there is something special about the K812's presentation, I immediately fell in love with it's sound. It's simply captivating to me. All three are captivating in their own way, but the AKG moreso imho.

 

[fb24601]

upgrade cable is a must for k812 to squeeze more out of it

 

[qazxsw80]

 The cable for me is the big let-down.  It is quite thin, and reminiscent of the cables on the K70x series.  It is replaceable – but uses a less common Lemo adaptor to connect to the headphone.  It is also rather unruly and tends to hold kinks if not coiled properly.  It terminates in a 6.3 mm plug – which if you undo the screw on outer – reveals a 3.5mm plug underneath (presumably for portable use).  For the cost of these headphones, it is the one area that screams to me “what were you thinking when you designed the cable”?

Nice review but I find it's kind of strange that you prefer the cable of the T1. It's heavy, dual entry and not easy to replace. I think it's the worst thing in the whole headphone.
On the contrary I really like the cable of the K812 - light, soft, single-sided and I can you use with portable devices. It's so comfortable and the connector is really nice (but still I would prefer mini-xlr). I definitely prefer it over the cable of my HD800 which looks nice but nothing else good about it.
But the pads of the K812 are just horrible. Really hate them because they get sticky in minutes. 

 

[plakat]

upgrade cable is a must for k812 to squeeze more out of it

Did you try that out? If so, with which cable?
I don't think its worth it... I fully trust AKG that they would not botch their reentry into summit-fi with a subpar cable (soundwise that is, I'd also prefer a visually more attractive cable).

 

[SilentFrequency]

I want a pink braided cable for my HD800's!

 

[kman1211]

  Nice review but I find it's kind of strange that you prefer the cable of the T1. It's heavy, dual entry and not easy to replace. I think it's the worst thing in the whole headphone.
On the contrary I really like the cable of the K812 - light, soft, single-sided and I can you use with portable devices. It's so comfortable and the connector is really nice (but still I would prefer mini-xlr). I definitely prefer it over the cable of my HD800 which looks nice but nothing else good about it.
But the pads of the K812 are just horrible. Really hate them because they get sticky in minutes. 

That is true, not sure why Beyer doesn't have replaceable cables on most of their headphones. Other than the DT 150, DT 100, DT 250, Custom One Pro, and Custom Studio I don't think any have replaceable cables. I didn't have much problems with the pads personally. Sometimes velours are more annoying than leathers/pleathers to me. 

 

[fb24601]

Did you try that out? If so, with which cable?
I don't think its worth it... I fully trust AKG that they would not botch their reentry into summit-fi with a subpar cable (soundwise that is, I'd also prefer a visually more attractive cable).

You should change it. You are a good guy but don't trust the akg 4n ofc stock cable.

I am now using a mundorf 99% silver and 1% cable for k812 (made by labkable hk). The clarity in treble and the feel of dynamic is much much improved. The alloy component is to retain the bass response or otherwise the bass extension may be weakened by using pure silver (although the treble is boosted). I usually listen to piano jazz trio and the performance in both treble and bass are too important to me.

I have ordered a 7n occ cable for k812 to see if I can get a more punchy bass for some fun and I can tell you after few days. But I'll say the mundorf silver gold alloy cable is very balanced for all music genres.

 

[plakat]

You should change it. You are a good guy but don't trust the akg 4n ofc stock cable.

Its fine if you're happy with your purchase. I don't invest in cables (besides reasonable amounts for optical purposes maybe). The money is in my opinion better invested in music (or maybe other parts of the chain). But to each his own I guess...

 

[fb24601]

Its fine if you're happy with your purchase. I don't invest in cables (besides reasonable amounts for optical purposes maybe). The money is in my opinion better invested in music (or maybe other parts of the chain). But to each his own I guess...

should invest in both

cable is important, can do fine tune and also with improvements

 

[Brooko]

upgrade cable is a must for k812 to squeeze more out of it

 

Its fine if you're happy with your purchase. I don't invest in cables (besides reasonable amounts for optical purposes maybe). The money is in my opinion better invested in music (or maybe other parts of the chain). But to each his own I guess...

 
Agree with plakat - and I can say for certain that for me the only reason I'd change the K812 cable is for aesthetics. Changing for sonics - I'd say your money is best spent elsehwhere.
 
But please - no cable debate in this thread. If you want to talk cables specifically for the K812 (and their "effect" on sound), take it to the main K812 thread.  Thanks.

 

[Brooko]

  That is true, there is something special about the K812's presentation, I immediately fell in love with it's sound. It's simply captivating to me. All three are captivating in their own way, but the AKG moreso imho.

 
Yep - there is a definite mix between the tonal balance and stage presentation that would still have me buying the K812 despite its flaws in the upper end. And it's not until yu compare the K812 side by side with the HD800 or T1 that those flaws become more apparent IMO.
 
 

  Nice review but I find it's kind of strange that you prefer the cable of the T1. It's heavy, dual entry and not easy to replace. I think it's the worst thing in the whole headphone.
On the contrary I really like the cable of the K812 - light, soft, single-sided and I can you use with portable devices. It's so comfortable and the connector is really nice (but still I would prefer mini-xlr). I definitely prefer it over the cable of my HD800 which looks nice but nothing else good about it.
But the pads of the K812 are just horrible. Really hate them because they get sticky in minutes. 

 
I think it's because of the fact that the T1 for me are listening station headphones - because of their amplification demands I'd never use them portably.  But rewiring wouldn't be too hard.  I've done it before with DT880 - just need a drill (or dremel tool), some mini XLR sockets and plugs, a multimeter, and some basic soldering skills. ASgree that replaceable cables from the outset would be nice - but the stock cable of the T1 has grown on me over time. At first I too thought it was cumbersome.
 
As far as the K812 cable goes - for a $1500 headphone, I would have expected better (quality) in the cable.  I quite liked the HD800 cable - so I guess a lot comes to individual preference

 

[kman1211]

   
Yep - there is a definite mix between the tonal balance and stage presentation that would still have me buying the K812 despite its flaws in the upper end. And it's not until yu compare the K812 side by side with the HD800 or T1 that those flaws become more apparent IMO.

I found the other two are a little better in the upper range than the K812. It's the K812 main flaw. But I still like the best out of the three regardless and the treble issues become less of a problem with the right synergy. It's like how the HD 800's and T1's flaws and some refinement issues become more apparent compared to headphones such as the SR-009, R10, Orpheus, HE-60, etc. 
 
Do you still use your HD 600 much after trying out all these flagships?