[TheMarchingMule]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro /img/forum/go_quote.gif The stock sound TF10 sounding better makes total sense to me. Most often thousands of hours of engineering go into these designs to make it sound as good as it can. To swap it out for another arbitrary housing would seem somewhat reckless to me. But I am not too familiar with customs.

That's exactly what I think too. As I'm wearing the triple.fi right now and looking in the mirror and seeing how ridiculous they look, at least I have some comfort in knowing how great they sound.

 

[kobayashi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iponderous /img/forum/go_quote.gif Call me a traditionalist but the idea of customising universal IEMs doesn't appeal to me for the same reason. If I went down the custom IEM route, I'd be interested in more than just a customised housing for my existing drivers. I'd be looking for the kind of technological innovation in custom IEM technology that JH Audio offers.

LOL Exactly what "technical innovation" does JH offer?

 

[mistertomlinson]

OK, after more listening, I've concluded the TF10s sound more similar than I originally thought, but remolding appears to have brought out the worst in the TF10.

I will also take back my statement that the TF10 is just as good as my Mages. After comparing the two directly, the Mages are a clear winner.

 

[cooperpwc]

Thank you for the great information. It does not surprise me at all.

 

[snuffed]

Then again it might not be a mistake per se and simply the way UM remoulds the TF10 that is bringing out the unwanted sibilance. /2c

 

[jaibautista]

So, is the jury still out with regard to putting one's self in the hassle of remolding his or her TF10s (and any universal multiple BA IEM for that matter)?

I am also looking at having my TF10s remolded (the cables have become so stiff I can use it to hang my clothes on it) but if the sound signature will change dramatically, I'd rather endure the Frankenstein-ish look, fit and comfort.

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoflatlines /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is true for dynamic drivers that rely on the airspace of the enclosure for its sound but in theory balanced armatures really shouldn't be affected since they are completely enclosed in their own box as it is. As long as the port length/diameter, filters, etc. stay the same then the sound would be comparable.

You'll find many full range and bass BAs have vent holes opposite lever so they are susceptible to volume and venting.

Sound difference in the remolds may be as simple as a different or missing filter.

 

[Young Spade]

Hmm interesting read. I was thinking about remolding my Triples but I went and bought some UM3Xs instead.

The fit isn't that bad for me; I actually don't really have any problems with it; just the idea of more comfort (to that which I get with my UM3Xs) and more isolation appealed to me.

 

[logwed]

I couldn't stand the comfort of the universal TF10, so I'd be fine with taking a hit in sound. I wouldn't really use IEMs for critical listening so it's not all that important to me...

 

[AVU]

My TF10 remold's SQ was clearly inferior to the originial. It lacked detail in the mid/treble register. The problem turned out to be due to the remold not being angled exactly right. UM seem to be better than Fisher in this regard, but it is a difficult process, and I think you have to expect sending them back 2-3 times until the fit is perfect. We talk about "fit" as if it's mainly an issue of comfort - but it's also an issue of SQ.

 

[pdupiano]

Sorry to chime in so late, but a good reason why the custom TF10's sound more sibilant may be due to the new material you are using in your iems. What I mean by that is specifically the lack of silicone or foam pads. When you get a pair of custom iems, you have a complete mold made out of hard acrylic or whatever material they decide to use. This does not filter out any of the higher frequencies (i.e. it does not suppress the sibilance and other ear screeching frequencies). On the other hand, when you use a pair of universal iems, you do have some ways of altering the sound by changing the type and size of tips you are using.

From my experience, going from a well designed product into an undesigned mess, is a huge mistake and ultimately you end up paying for it. While it may very well be the case that the UE13's are infact custom molded TF10's (i.e. same drivers), we do not know what fine tuning UE has done to make the UE13's sound the way they do. First off they would change their cross over frequencies resulting in changing their capacitors and resistors, and they would also alter their housing design as well as what acoustic filters and length of tubes they will use to create their final product. Additionally when you look at the JH13's, one of the original comments regarding the product was how deep the molds would go into your ear (I suppose more so than other customs). All of these variables contribute to a particular design and any deviation from it will result in different sounding iems or perhaps even problems with the iems.

Now what about when you have a pair of iems remolded? Well I would first ask the company, do you use the same filters? Do you use the same acoustic tubing and length of acoustic tubing? Do you change the crossovers to something easier for you to work with? From what I've read regarding UM and Fischer, they primarily shuck and plug the iem internals into new housings and use new filters and use different acoustic tubings (because its difficult to cut out acoustic tubing from molded acrylic). So what you get is a product being used in a poor design.

To sum it up, go with something well designed. You may save a few bucks here and there, but you only do so by taking a gamble (nothing comes for free). Coming from someone who goes to AC a lot, that's not a gamble I'm willing to take.

 

[mistertomlinson]

Well, EQ'ing them takes care of the sibilance and they sound pretty damn good, but i hate having to EQ a pair of monitors. I'm using the treble reducer and the sound is perfectly balanced. Of course, I have to wonder if EQ'ing is effecting the SQ.

 

[Mochan]

I hate having to EQ as well, since changing earphones means I have to re-EQ, and some players just don't EQ well (iPods). Sometimes the iPod EQs work for me (EQing JLabs J3 with the "Treble Reducer" helped me out fine) but most of the time I don't get the control I need to EQ specific parts of the sound to what I want.

Thanks for the impressions, I was thinking of getting my TF10s remolded eventually by UM but now I'm thinking maybe I should just get a Mage instead. You mentioned the Mage sounds warmer, if there's one thing I wanted to change in the TF10s I wanted it to be warmer.

Could you post more of your impressions regarding the Mage and its sound signature?

 

[mistertomlinson]

I should clarify something you may have overlooked. I had my first pair of Mages refitted and retuned as well. The first pair seemed particularly bright to my ears and the bass wasn't adequate for my taste, so I had them increase the bass when they remolded them. In retrospect, I think my first pair of Mages probably sounded a lot better than I originally thought, but due to loose fit, I wasn't hearing them accurately. So, I can only definitively comment on my retuned pair... and yes, they were much warmer than the TF10s with NO sibilance at all. After listening to them for so long, I even noticed sibilance in the universal TF10s, which I never noticed before.

Honestly, I think you'll be happy with Mages (not tuned) and I believe they're a much better choice than remolding. I think now if I had gotten mine remolded for a better fit and had not had them retuned, they would have sounded great. They're extremely neutral. Everything is just right. I could go for a little more "impact" bass, but I have a feeling that's more important to me than most people.

Another option... if you're willing to spend a little more, UM should be releasing they're 6 driver monitor very soon, which has a very similar sound signature and shouldn't be too much more than the Mage.

 

[jinp6301]

Yup, my sq was not as good. The IEMs got muddier and the treble extension suffered greatly. I kind of wish I didnt get them remolded but I was already out $50 for the impressions