[ezkcdude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldsoccer4 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have always thought about research, but had misconceptions that they didn't accept kids straight out of college to do it, so I didn't even think a career was really possible in it until later. So what does an education for research entail.

To get a PhD, you go to graduate school for 4-6 years, pass qualifying exams, write a dissertation, and publish a few papers. In the biomedical sciences, after a PhD, one typically does postdoctoral work anywhere from 2-5 years, and publishes a few more papers during that time. Then you should be ready to apply for a job as a Professor at a major research university or as a Scientist in the medical/biotech/pharmaceutical industry. It's takes a similar amount of time from start to finish as it would for becoming a full-fledged practicing physician (i.e. 4 years med school + anywhere from 3-10 years residency). Remember that if you go for a PhD in the sciences, you will get a stipend. They will pay you! (Not that much, but it beats owing $200,000 for med school.)

Of course, I would only recommend someone pursue a PhD if they are really hardcore about doing research. You have to love it as much as...well, as much as you love headphones or something...to invest so much of your life. It's a huge commitment, and it will most likely involve moving all about the country. I've lived in 4 different cities since I was 18.

 

[arnoldsoccer4]

If anything research and working with the unknown would be my thing. For example (I realize these will sound weak etc, but remember I'm in high school, experiences aren't too numerous) in psychology this year I would sleep everyday but when we did things like case studies and figuring out an unknown cause I would be wide awake and actually participating in class, same with math, whenever a teacher is trying to get to a proof or some formula I typically figure it out before the teacher even tells the class, and every once in a while I find alternate ways to solve problems that the teacher hasn't seen before.

 

[ezkcdude]

Sounds like myself at that age. You're well on your way!

 

[ph0rk]

Driveby advice:
Don't become a medical doctor if big money is your prime motivator - there is more money with less training available elsewhere.

Do become a medical doctor if you actually want to be a medical doctor, regardless of which specialization makes the most.

Some med schools will admit incoming undergrads with stellar records - i.e. all you have to do is drag yourself over the finish line for the BS/BA and you're automatically in their MD program (but only theirs). It might be a nice way to take some of the reapplication process pressure off.

 

[arnoldsoccer4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezkcdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sounds like myself at that age. You're well on your way!

Thanks for the advice, I was always curious but never asked.

ph0rk, I am just curious, more money with less training?

 

[Shizelbs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilency /img/forum/go_quote.gif Y On another note, if you want to go into medicine for the money, don't. The money is there, but the work and responsibility is tremendous. Medicine is a calling, you should go into because you want to help your fellow human beings. I know it sounds cliche but it is the truth. I have seen physicians who don't have a iota of compassion, yet they are very smart. They are in the wrong profession. On the other hand, I have seen smart physicians who care for their patients; they are the epitomy of what medicine is all about. The bad outcome of demanding the best in medicine (smart wise), is that smart people (but uncaring) have been able to get into it.

+ a million.

I would go into college with a very open mind and not having a tunnel vision. Furthermore, I would think long and hard about wanting to do medicine because I thought it was 'awesome'.

 

[Clutz]

A lot has been said in this thread already. I agree with most of what has been said, particularly from people who are old enough and experienced enough to have been there, made mistakes and learned from them.

I think it's a classic undergraduate mistake to start out University hellbent on following a path towards a their goal, particularly when pursuing that path makes them unhappy people. You're young, so you are allowed to be (and arguably SHOULD be) self-centered (you should be the most important person in the world to you). Before anything else, you should endeavor to be a happy, well fulfilled person. Look after yourself first, so that you can look after others later. If you're a mess, you're no good to anyone.

So with that as a preface: Don't start going to University hellbent about what you want to do. I am not saying that you shouldn't have a goal of going to medical school and becoming a doctor, but I think it is important that you allow yourself and your goals to change organically. Yes, if you want something badly enough you can often make things happen by just sheer force of will (or at least I can), but I don't advise it. When you work that way you've got a much higher chance of burning out and ultimately ending up unhappy.

I have a few friends who decided what they wanted to do after they graduated University while they were in high school and they were hell bent on accomplishing those original goals, despite the fact that they didn't actually enjoy the program they were in very much, while there were other classes they enjoyed a lot more. Very few of them are working in the area that they trained for in University. Even though they started out in their high school dream job after graduating college, they ended up being burned out and hating it pretty quickly.

I think a better plan, rather than simply taking courses that you think are going to be the easiest to get high grades in, or the most medically relevant, is to take the necessary med school pre-requisite classes along with classes that you find interesting. This will serve you well in two ways: first if you are interested in a particular subject area you then you will naturally study harder for it because you'll enjoy learning the material, and second if you're already interested in it then the chances are you probably already have some natural ability in it. On top of that, you'll probably get higher grades in courses that you find interesting than courses that you are taking because you think they'll be easy.

As an example: My 4th year GPA was something like 3.95 out of 4 (5 4.0s, 1 3.7 - yes, I took 6 courses that semester). It wasn't 4.0 because I took a music appreciation class that I wasn't really that interested in, but I thought would be easy. It was easy, but it was also really REALLY boring so I didn't study hard enough for it - so instead of getting a 90% in it, like I did in my other (much more challenging) courses, I think I had a mid 80 or something.

So in closing- if you want to be a doctor, then by all means pursue it, but don't pursue it by all means - especially if it starts to seem like there are other things out there you are more interested in doing.

Your #1 goal in life should be first to be happy, because you won't be able to achieve your other goals successfully if you're unhappy.

 

[arnoldsoccer4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezkcdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sounds like myself at that age. You're well on your way!

So I guess the question now is where to go to graduate school?

 

[Oistrakh]

hey, don't go into medicine for the money. If you really want to make a lot of money, go into investment banking

 

[gilency]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutz /img/forum/go_quote.gif So in closing- if you want to be a doctor, then by all means pursue it, but don't pursue it by all means - especially if it starts to seem like there are other things out there you are more interested in doing. Your #1 goal in life should be first to be happy, because you won't be able to achieve your other goals successfully if you're unhappy.

Very wise advice and very well said.

 

[Clutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldsoccer4 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So I guess the question now is where to go to graduate school?

Well, the answer there is it depends. While there are some schools that seem to be perennially pretty good at everything, for the most part where you will want to go will depend on what your interests are. You don't pick a graduate school on the overall schools reputation the way you would for a medical school or law school (or undergraduate education). It really depends on the field you want to study and the types of questions you are interested in, because you want to go and work with someone who has similar interests as you. It is also important to quantify the general quality of the department because you will be interacting with other faculty members and their graduate students. Those are probably two of the most important things to consider. There are of course, other factors to consider such as how well the program pays, and how much it costs to live in that town/city - but in my mind, unless any one of these other factors are deal breakers for you, they should definitely place second fiddle - and only be used to separate out schools that compete equally well in the first two categories.
So, for example I wanted to go to graduate school to study theoretical population genetics, so I considered quite a few schools at first: Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Duke, University of Chicago, University of Washington, University of Indiana, McGill University, University of British Columbia, Florida State University, University of California at Davis, University of California at San Diego, University of Texas-Austin, and the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Ultimately I decided on University of British Columbia because it is a very good school for evolutionary biology, my supervisor is top notch, and I had a really good connection with him.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[aaron313]

^

It's all about your thesis adviser. You can be brilliant at the textbook stuff (to pass qualifying exam), but you need help to actually get the PhD. Some geniuses never get to the end... kind of a shame. Research is a tough game.

 

[Clutz]

While ezkcdude is right, you do usually get a stipend to complete a PhD in science, it's pretty minimal - $19,000 at UBC unless you have a scholarship that pays out more, you are also making a lot less money than your friends who got jobs straight out of their undergraduate degree and that can be very frustrating. I make about $24,000 / year because of fellowships, but two of my closest friends make almost 10x that amount. I sometimes find that very disheartening. Additionally, doing a PhD can be extremely grueling work. It isn't very often that anyone tells you that you are doing a good job, but they will tell you when you screw up (and you will screw up- everyone screws up). So for 4-6 years, you will work long hours 6-7 days per week for less money than you would make flipping burgers, working the same number of hours. A very good supervisor can make a big difference, and there isn't a strong correlation between being a good scientist and a good thesis adviser. A good supervisor knows when you need to take a break and will tell you to do it. Burn out is a very real problem, at least in my department. If you go this route, you have to want to do this more than you want to do anything else. In fact, I would only recommend it to people who can't imagine doing anything else. You should live to work, not work to live.

I really feel that you are getting way ahead of yourself here. Figure out what you want to study at University first and study it. Grow as a person. Leave thinking about what you want to do with your life until the end of your 2nd year when you have to declare a major. It is a good idea to have some general plan for your future, but it is very easy to over plan for your future too. You don't want to constrain yourself. Of course, that is easier said than done - and thinking about things you might want to do is a good and fun thing to do! Just don't become too caught up in it and form any ideas too firmly.

I probably sound a bit negative about doing a PhD, and I don't mean to. I have learned a lot, and for the most part I have enjoyed it. I definitely question whether or not I would have made the decision to go to graduate school if I knew then what I know now. Although if I hadn't gone to graduate school, I would've never moved to Vancouver, and I would've never met the love of my life. So, if nothing else - that was worth it.

Meeting her was so worth it.

 

[aaron313]

Masters Degree = bang for the buck.

 

[shoenberg3]

You are in good position to gain admittance to UCLA and other californian state schools, but not necessarily to the most competitive programs ie Stanford, Ivy league, 7-8-year medical programs on any campus. That will have to depend on your "selling point," extracurriculars, recommendation, school reputation, essay, and, even, bit of luck.