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Classical music discussion, what do you like?
Jul 3, 2018 at 7:34 AM Post #1,486 of 2,850
Yes, there a few videos of HvK rehearsing, posted on YouTube. There is one of him giving a Master Class in conducting, to a young apprentice, who looked forlorn and intimidated; the poor fellow should sit down. I think he looks like a young Franz Welser-Most(?).



(Those strings are OUT OF TUNE/SYNC in that video!!)

I like HvK's Richard Strauss, some of his Bruckner, Sibelius, and some Beethoven. I don't agree with all the fuss/criticism he received from "critics", about him being overly obsessed with getting an ultra-smooth, tailored sound from his BPO. That is true of other conductors -- Szell/Cleveland, Solti/Chicago brass, etc etc. So I don't believe that was HvK's vice. He had other vices which I won't go into (read Roger Vaughan's biography of HvK if you're interested in a no-holds barred authorized bio of the Maestro)
https://www.amazon.ca/Herbert-Karaj...2pEeL&preST=_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch.

I can't sit through any Wagner, but I do enjoy the orchestral overtures by both Karajan and Solti. HvK's Carmen and Rosenkavalier are still relevant and perhaps even tops (esp. Rosenkavalier with Schwarzkopf).

If your vinyl version of Schumann's 3rd fails to give you goosebumps, try the CD. That's what I listen to mostly, with its superior dynamic range on my speakers system. Although I do have many of HvK's LPs, incl the orig box 1962 Beeth cycle, the Triple Cto with Richter et al., and his 1964 Brahms, among others.

cheers
 
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Jul 4, 2018 at 2:24 PM Post #1,490 of 2,850
CanadianMaestro said:
btw, HvK's Missa Solemnis with Wunderlich, Janowitz, Ludwig is the all-time best. What a dream lineup!
Click to expand...

It has been in my LP collection since 1966. A classic!
Always at no more than arm's length distance .
I also have HvK's EMI version also with Janowitz in slightly better SQ than the DGG. And also Klemperer's EMI set together with Böhm's Vienna Philharmonic recording from the Musikverein where I actually heard Janowitz live both in Beethoven's 9th and the Missa Solemnis.
The only digital version of Beethoven's Missa Soleminis I have is a live BR Classic recording led by Haitink.
No recording gets even close to the angelic voice of Janowitz live in the Musikverein.
Cheers Christer
 
Jul 4, 2018 at 2:28 PM Post #1,491 of 2,850
CanadianMaestro said:
Yes, there a few videos of HvK rehearsing, posted on YouTube. There is one of him giving a Master Class in conducting, to a young apprentice, who looked forlorn and intimidated; the poor fellow should sit down. I think he looks like a young Franz Welser-Most(?).



(Those strings are OUT OF TUNE/SYNC in that video!!)

I like HvK's Richard Strauss, some of his Bruckner, Sibelius, and some Beethoven. I don't agree with all the fuss/criticism he received from "critics", about him being overly obsessed with getting an ultra-smooth, tailored sound from his BPO. That is true of other conductors -- Szell/Cleveland, Solti/Chicago brass, etc etc. So I don't believe that was HvK's vice. He had other vices which I won't go into (read Roger Vaughan's biography of HvK if you're interested in a no-holds barred authorized bio of the Maestro)
https://www.amazon.ca/Herbert-Karaj...2pEeL&preST=_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch.

I can't sit through any Wagner, but I do enjoy the orchestral overtures by both Karajan and Solti. HvK's Carmen and Rosenkavalier are still relevant and perhaps even tops (esp. Rosenkavalier with Schwarzkopf).

If your vinyl version of Schumann's 3rd fails to give you goosebumps, try the CD. That's what I listen to mostly, with its superior dynamic range on my speakers system. Although I do have many of HvK's LPs, incl the orig box 1962 Beeth cycle, the Triple Cto with Richter et al., and his 1964 Brahms, among others.

cheers
Click to expand...


Hello again.
I agree with your take on Karajan in most respects.
Regarding Wagner try Das Rheingold with Karajan.
You are missing some truly great music.
Hypnothizing.
I listened to it in one long glorious 2,5 hours stretch via 24/96 good dynamic range version without even a single brake a couple of nights ago via speakers. Still after half a century a wonderful recording.
Regarding Schumann the 1972 HvK DGG LP fares best in the two inner movements with simpler scoring than the massed strings in the first movement tune which tend to sound hard via my large electrostatic speakers.
But those Berlin horns in the scherzo are good indeed as you say.
Karajan had one of the best orchestras in the world at the time. Too bad DGG did not always record them equally well as they played.
Both EMI and DECCA treated them better imho.
And I fear rbcd would only worsen the steely strings effect.
Rbcd has never really given me any goosebumps.
With one amazing exception the still very limited selection of rbcds I have heard via headphones and Chord's DAVE/BLU2.
I have never ever before or after, heard 16/44.1rbcd sound as realistic.
Very promising for the future. But still exhorbitantly expensive.
A couple of the discs I auditioned sounded basically as mastertape and almost as micfeed at sessions with one digital recording.
And that was actually from a mid 80s Karajan early digital DGG CD.
But I have the Schumann symphonies both with Sawallisch/Dresden on EMI LPs in better sound than DGG's,and an SACD with Inbal and the LPO that sounds really fine via my system.
The Schumann live recordings from Prague's Rudolfinum on Pentatone SACDs are also quite nice if one likes Schumann big and bold and a bit thick.
Very romantic indeed.
My only download version is a much leaner version by the Netherlands Radio Chamber Orchestra from Challenge Classics in nice clear DSD sound with not even a hint of steelyness in the strings.
But of course without those Berlin Horns.
Cheers Christer
 
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Jul 4, 2018 at 7:22 PM Post #1,492 of 2,850
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Jul 4, 2018 at 8:05 PM Post #1,493 of 2,850
Glass's structures, played by Levingston at a high standard.

SL_92205.jpg
 
Jul 5, 2018 at 5:42 AM Post #1,494 of 2,850
CanadianMaestro said:
Christer; Thanks for the tip about Rheingold. Is it this version:

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8167211--wagner-das-rheingold

Or the Bayreuth, with Schwarzkopf?
https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/7944365--wagner-das-rheingold

Might give it a shot. At that MP3 price, and my Bryston digital system, no loss!
https://sites.google.com/site/favoriterecordings/sources-thoughts

cheers
Click to expand...
Hi again,
Yes I was thinking of the 1966 DGG studio recording. I don't think even I would sit through an early fifties mono recording of Wagner's music.
If anything Wagner's music needs good,really good SQ to shine.
But I have Knappertsbusch's live early 60s Parsifal from Bayreuth and it sounds quite good after all these years on LP
And Karajan and his superb orchestra the BPO in the DGG Ring from the mid 60s make Das Rheingold really shine like old very precious Gold imho .
But if I were you I would look for it either on LPs in a thrift shop or in 24/96 master file quality from other cheaper sources like Qobuz or the German site Highresaudio rather than Presto.
With 24/96 master files from the analogue mastertapes by DGG themselves you get the full dynamic range of those still by any standard very good analogue recordings.
5-10 dB more than what they put on LPs in those days,which was never more than roughly 50-55dB.
As far as compressed MP3 and such goes I listen to my fair share of it, via Videos on Youtube and many of the often musically very interesting things posted here on this thread. But I almost never listen to those via speakers.
My electrostatic speakers are too revealing for much of low res digital.
But I am grateful for both your and many other videos posted here .They made up quite a part of my music listening via headphones this past winter season.
Good music well performed comes first of course . But if as now at home again,I can get it in really good SQ as well that is when I really start getting goosebumps.
And with live music I reach "eargasmic states" on a regular basis.
Cheers Christer I'll look into your tech link more closely later.
Looks like you're a Bryston man though?
PS. where are you based in Canada by the way?
I used to visit Canada quite regularly in the late nineties and early 2k years.
I bought some LPs from an LP dealer in Gastown Vancouver in those days before flying back home again.
 
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Jul 5, 2018 at 8:29 AM Post #1,495 of 2,850
Hi Christer,
I will look into the 96/24 version from Presto -- it's $23 CAD there.

I sometimes do MP3-320kbps from Presto. On my system, I don't hear a difference from 44/16 FLAC, and if you Google MP3 320 vs. FLAC, there are several sites that state outright that an A/B DBT often reveals no perceptible difference on a decent system.

Yes, I like Bryston, their amps, esp. the squared series, (and their current cubed amps) are excellent. In the 70s and 80s, their amps may have had a touch of brightness on some music genres like hard rock, but no more. Played at humane volumes, of course. And their digital players and DAC (BDA-1) are sublime. My speakers, Mozart Grand SE, are perfection for classical and chamber/jazz vocals, even classic rock like The Doors and Orbison. An amazing pair of speakers. I imagine your electrostatics give you lots of satisfaction.

I'm in Alberta but was raised in Toronto.

Music-wise, I haven't really explored in depth Wagner's operas, esp the Ring. I've heard Tannhauser and like it. I tend to do Mozart -- he's the one opera composer who leaves me humming his music after leaving the opera house. I used to subscribe to the Met when I lived in NYC (UWS) in the '90s, and that was something. Magic Flute, Don Giovanni. The latter is my fav opera, along with Carmen. Saw Carmen at the Wiener Staatsoper in May 2013, with Garanca and Alagna. Garanca is the best mezzo alive. I have her discs, esp "Meditation". Amazing nocturnal listening, even on headphones.

Anyways, thanks for the tips. I agree with you on mono recs. Few are done really well. I tried to like Toscanini's Beethoven, but ended up disliking it. I can't listen to much of Schnabel or Cortot, because their earliest recs are all mono and in poor quality, despite them being great artists. I'm a big Mahler symph fan, and that is one composer that MUST be heard in stereo. The Concertgebouw is the best for Mahler (their hall in Amsterdam is superb, better than the Musikverein -- heard Mahler #1 their, and I was blown away, seated behind the orchestra close to the percussion. Gatti conducts like Bernstein -- very animated and physical, unlike Karajan, who conducts with eyes shut). I wished Karajan had done a complete Mahler cycle, but truthfully, he himself found Mahler difficult to grasp. His 5th is decent, but Bernstein's VPO 5th is King. I like Karajan's 9th from 1980 rec in JC Kirche; it's one of my refs from M9. Ironic, because I find Bruckner harder to sit through than Mahler, and HvK was a master at Bruckner. Oh well.

cheers
Pete
 
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