Chord Hugo
Apr 9, 2014 at 6:29 PM Post #1,621 of 15,694
 
Quote:
 
[snip] I am not a big believer in the USB bandwidth related issues as I have a fairly extensive technical background and none of the arguments I have heard make much technical sense given that the examples of what could go wrong basically give outlier cases that would result in loss of USB connection more than loss of SQ.

 
Along those lines, Jason Stoddard's installment today, Chapter 11: USB Sucks! Or, Mike Joins the 21st Century, on his Schiit company start-up serial narrative thread should be an interesting read.
 
Apr 9, 2014 at 6:31 PM Post #1,622 of 15,694
From my own experimentation, I can tell you that you get a noticeable SQ increase by outputing to the Hugo via the RCA Coaxial vs. USB.  I did this via my Wadia ipod dock and other transports.  In any case, I recommend you try it yourself by taking same song and outputing to HUGO via USB and via coaxial.

The article you are referring to is written in such as fashion as one can easily mix up issues he is bringing up.  But in the end he is essentially recommending that you output to the Hugo via the RCA Coaxial via the USB convertors (AP2, etc.).  The power issue comes in that he recommends improvements to the power being provided to the USB convertors.

I am not a big believer in the USB bandwidth related issues as I have a fairly extensive technical background and none of the arguments I have heard make much technical sense given that the examples of what could go wrong basically give outlier cases that would result in loss of USB connection more than loss of SQ.  However, I often times do hear a difference from better USB cables and off loading USB to coaxial.  As to why USB convertors result in better sound quality, the main theories I hear and believe is this:

USB has two SQ issues. 

1) One possible feedback or interference from USB power that people often try to use better USB cables to solve.  If the USB DAC is using USB power, the problem could be even worse as consistent power is vital to almost all USB operations.  However the HUGO does not use USB power, but the USB power is still connected and still necessarily to make initial USB handshake.  The USB convertors he mentioned all take great pains to separate power from the source device via USB to providing their own cleaner power.

2) USB has inherently more jitter.  Most of the USB convertors are also taking in the digitial feed and queuing up the data.  It then reclocks its queue for smoother sound. Hifi Nutter mentioned why didn't Rob Watts think of this?  The key thing is that it isn't typically handled in the DAC.  The Hugo is the receipt of the data and if the data is "messed" up in some way, then it really doesn't have anything to do with it.  There are some desktop DACs that spend quite a bit of effort in receiving data and reclocking it so as to accomplish similar things.  But it would likely involve a much bigger package than the Hugo is contained in.  It wouldn't surprise me if the desktop version of the Hugo spends much of its effort around this as well as providing consistent power to the DAC chip.  Although I don't know how sensitive the Chord DAC chip is to power issues and, being that battery power is so much easily to implement with less issues, it might be an expensive challenge for them to build out a better AC power solution (my guess is some linear power solution).

That's great, cheers for that crashem, appreciate it
 
Apr 9, 2014 at 6:48 PM Post #1,623 of 15,694
   
Along those lines, Jason Stoddard's installment today, Chapter 11: USB Sucks! Or, Mike Joins the 21st Century, on his Schiit company start-up serial narrative thread should be an interesting read.


Good read.  Most of the issues mentioned have to do with old USB standards (pre USB Audio 2.0) or problems around implementing a good USB Audio 2.0 solution (in other words, issues from 2011).  The real issue mentioned with USB Audio 2.0 he mentions is that they hated that the source device (in this case the computer) controlling the clock which is what I was basically talking about with my original post point #2.  To give you an idea, there would be many audiophiles who would look down on Schitt's solution to the problem.  Basically the USB convertors are implementing a similar solution to the same problem pointed out by Jason Stoddard's chief engineer which is reclocking the data more accurately.   Go read some of the details on the Berkeley Alpha USB Convertor or higher end DACs to see what lengths they go to prevent clock related jitter issues using crazy expensive ridiculously accurate clocks and such.
 
Apr 9, 2014 at 6:52 PM Post #1,624 of 15,694
That's great, cheers for that crashem, appreciate it


NP.  I wish he had been a little clearer but he was doing both the stats and color role (from sports broadcasting) which can confuse the issue.  Basically I took away from that article was confirmation that the coaxial RCA is the best way to get data to the Hugo.  As to how you do it was the bulk of that article/sales piece.  So if you decide to go that route but want to use USB, then lots of USB convertors of which he was recommending the AP2, and that he is saying good power to your USB convertor makes a difference.
 
Apr 9, 2014 at 6:57 PM Post #1,625 of 15,694
It's why I still use a CD transport front end instead of a digital file server in my home audio set-up.  And in one configuration, I'm using I2S signal transmission between my transport and DAC, and that gives sole clocking duties to the source for jitter elimination.
 
The OR5 generally gets the nod over the AP2 around here lately for USB conversion.
 
Apr 9, 2014 at 6:58 PM Post #1,626 of 15,694
BTW, look what this top end DAC (arguably one of, if not, the best DAC) out there charges for the clock upgrades:
 
http://www.msbtech.com/products/platinumHome.php
 
140 femtosecond clock for 4995
70 femtosecond clock for 9995
 
Ouch!  BTW, femtosecond is one quadrillionth of a second.
 
Apr 9, 2014 at 7:19 PM Post #1,627 of 15,694
Originally Posted by 6RS 
 
The micro USB connector broke off on my Hugo. Be careful when using Hugo as a mobile device. I have been putting mine into a bag with the USB cable attached. The physical stress on the connector caused the internal micro USB plug break off...
 
 
 
Same thing happened to my Hugo. On its way to be fixed already. 
 
Apr 9, 2014 at 7:49 PM Post #1,628 of 15,694
Originally Posted by 6RS 

 
The micro USB connector broke off on my Hugo. Be careful when using Hugo as a mobile device. I have been putting mine into a bag with the USB cable attached. The physical stress on the connector caused the internal micro USB plug break off...



Same thing happened to my Hugo. On its way to be fixed already. 


I wonder iff they can fix the connector issue as well
 
Apr 9, 2014 at 7:54 PM Post #1,629 of 15,694
It's why I still use a CD transport front end instead of a digital file server in my home audio set-up.  And in one configuration, I'm using I2S signal transmission between my transport and DAC, and that gives sole clocking duties to the source for jitter elimination.

The OR5 generally gets the nod over the AP2 around here lately for USB conversion.


Have a similar dilemma as I am building out my head if setup. Have oppo bdp-95 that I was planning on selling but lazy. Could use oppo to play discs as well as get to synology and network music (btw decent media app on beta for android). Or I can invest in network player or usb convertor. Decisions decisions.
 
Apr 9, 2014 at 8:07 PM Post #1,630 of 15,694
I confess to not reading the entire thread, but has anybody compared the Hugo DAC to the PS Audio PerfectWave Mk II DAC? When I listened to the Hugo aT the most recent O.C. headphone meet I fell in love with it. However I already have a headphone amplifier and I'm trying not to spend over $2K on a DAC. I just wish that the Hugo came in an "amp-less" model i.e. DAC only, at a cheaper price point.
 
GLR


Yes I own the PWD mkii with bridge - the Hugo is superior sonically by a wide margin to my ears.
 
Apr 9, 2014 at 8:35 PM Post #1,631 of 15,694
Yes I own the PWD mkii with bridge - the Hugo is superior sonically by a wide margin to my ears.


Interesting.  How are you getting the music to each of the devices?  I have PWD and await the Direct Stream Upgrade.  BTW, Direct Stream is interesting as well as it uses custom dac chip in the same way chord has its own dac chips.  I am tired of dacs arguing over basically better implementations of XYZ generic dac chip.  With custom chips, in my opinion, there is a greater possibility of significant improvement and potentially utter failure (although I would hope utter failures would never hit the market).
 
Apr 9, 2014 at 9:14 PM Post #1,632 of 15,694
Yes I own the PWD mkii with bridge - the Hugo is superior sonically by a wide margin to my ears.


Interesting.  How are you getting the music to each of the devices?  I have PWD and await the Direct Stream Upgrade.  BTW, Direct Stream is interesting as well as it uses custom dac chip in the same way chord has its own dac chips.  I am tired of dacs arguing over basically better implementations of XYZ generic dac chip.  With custom chips, in my opinion, there is a greater possibility of significant improvement and potentially utter failure (although I would hope utter failures would never hit the market).


USB HD on Hugo.
Ethernet into bridge from router on pwd.

I am thinking of upgrade too to direct stream but could by another Hugo for that price too
 
Apr 10, 2014 at 9:10 AM Post #1,633 of 15,694
Quote:
I confess to not reading the entire thread, but has anybody compared the Hugo DAC to the PS Audio PerfectWave Mk II DAC? When I listened to the Hugo aT the most recent O.C. headphone meet I fell in love with it. However I already have a headphone amplifier and I'm trying not to spend over $2K on a DAC. I just wish that the Hugo came in an "amp-less" model i.e. DAC only, at a cheaper price point.
 
GLR

 
If you can get the PWD MkII now for less than $2K, it'd be well worth it. Implementing its HDMI I2S signal input from whatever source will most likely realize you its optimum performance. An Empirical Audio Offramp 5 (or 6) USB/HDMI I2S DDC is a good way to go if using an audio file USB output front end (e.g. PC), but that's a fairly expensive proposition in itself, which kinda defeats the economizing reason for purchasing the PWD MkII in the first place. Still, it's a first-rate setup, and a worthwhile system upgrade at a later date if you so desire.
 
Apr 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM Post #1,634 of 15,694
What hifi gave chord hugo four stars, lost a star because of the rca gap being to small which has been sorted and they slated the on/off switch being difficult to get at, they also said if you totally discharge the batteries then connect the mains lead you have to wait 2 hours before you can use it again,I don't recall that happening to me when the batteries were flat, still a raving review for the sound quality.
 
Apr 10, 2014 at 11:04 AM Post #1,635 of 15,694
And apologies about the mix up with the ap2 and hugo,I read it wrong and maybe I should do my homework before texting in here,I thought I knew a bit about hifi but ppl in ere are on a different level, think I'll just stick to listening to hifi rather than trying to work out how it works
 

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