Chord Electronics Qutest DAC - Official Thread
Sep 22, 2019 at 3:12 PM Post #4,216 of 6,743
Thx B, this is as easy as it gets. And the less parts in the chain.. the less signal loss. I have a Questyle CMA400i current mode HP amp which is rated DC-600khz frequency response which gives sublime result too. But somehow direct drive out of Qutest squeezes just the last detail out.
I tried really bassy tracks also shortly on ear splitting level and the sound stays very clear and won't get muddy. I believe the op stage is just like Mojo's one.
 
Sep 22, 2019 at 4:40 PM Post #4,217 of 6,743
I will apologize in advance. In 282 pages I am sure this has been covered. I just bought a Qutest and want to use a 7th gen iPod or iPhone 11 for my source.

I understand that I need a Apple CCK cable. What is the female USB end of that CCK cable, is it USB C?
I think also need a USB B (?) cable end for the Qutest input. So what USB cable ends (male C and male B ?) do I need to connect to the CCK? I see that Moon audio has an Silver Dragon option but there must be another option.

There are tons of 'how to connect a Mojo using iPhone / iPod' but it's not as easy to find the correct cables for the Qutest connection.
When the Qutest arrives, I want to be sure I am set with the proper cables for this setup!
 
Sep 22, 2019 at 5:16 PM Post #4,218 of 6,743
Any cck has usb a female connection. So with the supplied stock usb a male to usb b male cable youre set.

I did notice the cutest does draw some current for the connection up signalling, draining a source's battery faster than neccessary.
 
Sep 22, 2019 at 5:21 PM Post #4,219 of 6,743


Hi ppl.
Recently joined the Qutest team!
Acquired myself one used for 1025 euros.
And tried feeding my HD800 straight out using digital volume in foobar. Have A-B with Mojo. And i can confirm that the analog stage of Qutest is more than capable of driving a 300ohm load.
And oh i like the transparency over Mojo!
I do guess adding an extra cap close to the 5v power inlet would give benefit cause of the more current being drawn specially for the peaks.
I'm also sure it works better with high impedance HP over low ones, its just the law of ohm: power is voltage x current and higher impedance use less current for the same power, so better for the op stage.

Can't see the back side. What is that Y splitter that goes from Qutest RCA output jacks to the headphone?
 
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Sep 22, 2019 at 11:03 PM Post #4,221 of 6,743
Why not just use qutest and digital volume control? Since qutest has such low impedance it will work. Adding SYS will only degrade things!

Using some passive volume control will degrade things a bit, this is true, but digital volume control, for example with Foobar, you can use only with PCM format, not with DSD native! I have tried it all and it sounds best when you put the signal from the Qutest through a decent real preamplifier and power amp for floorstanders, or through an earphones amp for earphones.
 
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Sep 23, 2019 at 1:26 AM Post #4,222 of 6,743
Any cck has usb a female connection. So with the supplied stock usb a male to usb b male cable youre set.

I did notice the cutest does draw some current for the connection up signalling, draining a source's battery faster than neccessary.

Thanks for that, Reactcore!
It looks like I may just need to snag an official Apple CCK adapter and I should be set.
 
Sep 23, 2019 at 1:48 AM Post #4,223 of 6,743
Using some passive volume control will degrade things a bit, this is true, but digital volume control, for example with Foobar, you can use only with PCM format, not with DSD native! I have tried it all and it sounds best when you put the signal from the Qutest trough a decent real preamplifier and power amp for floorstanders, or through an earphones amp for earphones.
Chord DACs don't do real DSD native, they convert internally to PCM.
 
Sep 23, 2019 at 3:14 AM Post #4,224 of 6,743
you can use only with PCM format, not with DSD native!

Ah you have a point there. I havent tried true DSD yet in foobar, theres no control over native, at least until some clever guy comes with a plugin somehow.
Have to let f2k convert those to PCM then.
Does'nt that actually happen inside the dac first anyway since the wta process is applied to pcm waveforms:thinking:
Or use my amp. Will try to hear the differences in Q.
 
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Sep 23, 2019 at 3:47 AM Post #4,225 of 6,743
Chord DACs don't do real DSD native, they convert internally to PCM.

I think this is not true, where did you read it? The manual states in a very clear way:
native DSD via ASIO.

Anyway, I would like to warn once again: the software players digital volume control does not work in DSD mode and the signal is output to its maximum. If somebody listens to some wav file through the Foobar, using direct output to the earphones, and downloads a DSD file and decides curiously to check how it plays, when switching over in the Foobar to DSD output mode and if having the earphones on, one might blow up his own ear-drums, no joke about it. I have had similar experience once, luckily with floorstanders, I nearly blew out the windows... :angry:
 
Sep 23, 2019 at 3:51 AM Post #4,226 of 6,743
I think this is not true, where did you read it? The manual states in a very clear way:
native DSD via ASIO.

Anyway, I would like to warn once again: the software players digital volume control does not work in DSD mode and the signal is output to its maximum. If somebody listens to some wav file through the Foobar, using direct output to the earphones, and downloads a DSD file and decides curiously to check how it plays, when switching over in the Foobar to DSD output mode and if having the earphones on, one might blow up his own ear-drums, no joke about it. I have had similar experience once, luckily with floorstanders, I nearly blew out the windows... :angry:
This is because the foobar dsd/sacd plug-in will not use digital volume control since that would lose the bit-perfectness.

Anyway I'm on mobile so someone else will have to provide the reference, but DSD converts to PCM in Chord, otherwise their high-tap digital filter cannot work yeah.
 
Sep 23, 2019 at 3:59 AM Post #4,228 of 6,743
Ah you have a point there. I havent tried true DSD yet in foobar, theres no control over native, at least until some clever guy comes with a plugin somehow.
Have to let f2k convert those to PCM then.
Does'nt that actually happen inside the dac first anyway since the wta process is applied to pcm waveforms:thinking:
Or use my amp. Will try to hear the differences in Q.

This is not possible, to have some plug-in or something to control volume in the software player with DSD format - this is the nature of DSD - the direct streaming. It is not only Foobar, but no player, JRiver, or HQPlayer, etc. can control the volume of a DSD playback.
Converting it to PCM I think brings always some quality loss...
 
Sep 23, 2019 at 4:55 AM Post #4,229 of 6,743
Leaves the question which is better at the conversion, i bet Chord since theres always timing involved..

No question about it, if there is a conversion, the internal hardware conversion within Chord will be better.
But I would expect a straight statement on the part of Chord at this stage, because when the manual says that the DAC accepts native DSD, I expect that this means the DAC's chip is capable of direct reading and decoding and converting the DSD file to analogue signal. If we have to go to PCM first, I prefer to buy high resolution wav files, not DSD. But we have the right to know were we stand.
 
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Sep 23, 2019 at 6:47 AM Post #4,230 of 6,743
Chord DACs don't do real DSD native, they convert internally to PCM.

It would be trivially easy for me to do a native DSD DAC conversion using pulse array - so why don't I? It's because DSD to analogue conversion is horribly sensitive to clock jitter, and requires complex analogue filtering to remove the huge amount of noise above 20 kHz - and to do it efficiently enough so that noise floor modulation is not an issue in amps down chain would require hugely complex analogue filters - all adding distortion and noise, and more importantly the extra analogue complexity would degrade transparency.

The sensitivity to clock jitter is down to the fact that DSD is switching dependent - that is the effective switching rate changes with signal level. This induces signal dependent glitch noise, which creates large amounts of distortion. Moreover, this jitter errors also creates noise that is dependent upon the DSD modulator, so modulation noise gets decoded and inter-modulated into the audio bandwidth - this creates the well known idle pattern noise (a kind of gurgle sound, particularly noticeable when the music signal stops, and the DSD modulator recovers to zero idle patterns).

So if you want more distortion and noise, gurgle sounds, increased noise floor modulation and reduced transparency than go for the simple native DSD DAC.

I think this is not true, where did you read it? The manual states in a very clear way:
native DSD via ASIO.

Anyway, I would like to warn once again: the software players digital volume control does not work in DSD mode and the signal is output to its maximum. If somebody listens to some wav file through the Foobar, using direct output to the earphones, and downloads a DSD file and decides curiously to check how it plays, when switching over in the Foobar to DSD output mode and if having the earphones on, one might blow up his own ear-drums, no joke about it. I have had similar experience once, luckily with floorstanders, I nearly blew out the windows... :angry:

The confusion here is that there are two types of native DSD. There is the conversion to analogue, where you take the DSD bit-stream and essentially low pass filter it - so called native DSD conversion - with all the SQ and measurement problems this entails as I discussed above.

The second meaning of native DSD concerns not the method to convert to analogue, but the method to get the data to the DAC - the interface protocol. We have two options - DoP transmission, or native transmission. With DoP you transmit it via regular PCM, with a 8 bit header that tells the DAC that the bottom 16 bits is regular DSD data. With native DSD transmission, the data has no overhead, and is just DSD data transmitted, so the DAC receives a bit clock, DSD data left and DSD data right. Native DSD is more efficient, and you can run up-to DSD 512 - but the downside is that it is only via ASIO. DoP has the header data, so is less efficient, so will work only to DSD 256. The DAC than has to decode the DoP file to extract the DSD data - in an FPGA this decoding is trivial to do.

Both DoP and native DSD ASIO transmission protocols transmits identical data, and the DAC will receive identical data irrespective of whether it is DoP or native transmission.
 

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