[Gibson59]

RF noise causing noise floor modulation is like MSG for audio spicing up the sound. The negative with this is that the sound becomes more flat and depth is reduced and nuance in timbre is reduced. Everything can sound harder. As was mentioned earlier, you can’t add darkness but more brightness is very very likely from RF noise.

Your explanation of the impact of RF noise is spot on to what I’m hearing. I have to admit that the more time I spend listening even more carefully and for longer periods I’m finding myself leaning towards optical now (I can admit when I’m wrong lol). The depth and nuance in timber of optical is very evident, as is the detail and decay of notes. Normally when we mention detail I tend to think of treble, but in this case the detail I’m hearing via optical are things like subtle vibrato in a vocal notes that are trailing off and nuanced dynamics in each note that really seems to have more depth to it and sounds more lifelike.

Via USB it certainly does sound a little harder as you put it and this seems to lessen the subtle nuance of each note with both instruments and vocals. Treble is increased. With USB instruments sometimes have more energy but also sound more digital. Vocals sound a bit more forward but also noticeably flatter. However there have been times where the harder USB sonics don’t take away from the song and are welcomed. But on well recorded high res tracks a little of the magic seems to to be lost with USB.

Optical sounds a little more organic to my ear and more like vinyl (I’m a huge vinyl buff, my other expensive addiction) where USB sounds a bit digital and has that edge. I’m getting lost in the music easier via optical. The main thing I like about the USB implementation is it sounds like the presence gets a db boost and the bass seems to hit just a little bit harder.

Thanks for the great explanation regarding RF noise. Being able to articulate in my mind what I’m hearing has helped me better compare them. In the end I will probably leave both optical and USB connected, using optical 90% and USB 10% depending on what music I’m listening to. I’m going to treat them like two different filters I have at my disposal. And USB will be there for me for if/when I stream even higher res files.

I’m using Audioquest Carbon for both optical and USB cables btw. Do the high end cables make a difference here? Who knows, but I’ve spent so much time and money trying to perfect my system I just said screw it and sprung for the expensive cables.

I can easily say that I’m beyond nit picking here and if If it were not for me listening very critically in a perfectly quiet environment, with a high end chain and choosing the right tracks to expose sonic differences, it might be hard to identify all the subtle differences between optical and USB. At the end of the day they both sound fantastic. But part of the fun is picking this stuff apart!

 

[Gibson59]

Regarding jitter, it’s a timing difference between the source and the DAC and traditionally USB is the best choice for jitter as it’s asynchronous (the timing for the source comes from the DAC), but Rob’s DAC designs are immune to jitter on all inputs so it’s not even a consideration with Chord DACs, unlike many other traditional digital audio gear where optical could have bad jitter.

Another great explanation, thank you. Would you mind briefly explaining what jitter actually sounds like? I’ve heard references to jitter countless times, but I’ve never come across the explanation of how it sounds in any threads.

 

[Arniesb]

Your explanation of the impact of RF noise is spot on to what I’m hearing. I have to admit that the more time I spend listening even more carefully and for longer periods I’m finding myself leaning towards optical now (I can admit when I’m wrong lol). The depth and nuance in timber of optical is very evident, as is the detail and decay of notes. Normally when we mention detail I tend to think of treble, but in this case the detail I’m hearing via optical are things like subtle vibrato in a vocal notes that are trailing off and nuanced dynamics in each note that really seems to have more depth to it and sounds more lifelike.

Via USB it certainly does sound a little harder as you put it and this seems to lessen the subtle nuance of each note with both instruments and vocals. Treble is increased. With USB instruments sometimes have more energy but also sound more digital. Vocals sound a bit more forward but also noticeably flatter. However there have been times where the harder USB sonics don’t take away from the song and are welcomed. But on well recorded high res tracks a little of the magic seems to to be lost with USB.

Optical sounds a little more organic to my ear and more like vinyl (I’m a huge vinyl buff, my other expensive addiction) where USB sounds a bit digital and has that edge. I’m getting lost in the music easier via optical. The main thing I like about the USB implementation is it sounds like the presence gets a db boost and the bass seems to hit just a little bit harder.

Thanks for the great explanation regarding RF noise. Being able to articulate in my mind what I’m hearing has helped me better compare them. In the end I will probably leave both optical and USB connected, using optical 90% and USB 10% depending on what music I’m listening to. I’m going to treat them like two different filters I have at my disposal. And USB will be there for me for if/when I stream even higher res files.

I’m using Audioquest Carbon for both optical and USB cables btw. Do the high end cables make a difference here? Who knows, but I’ve spent so much time and money trying to perfect my system I just said screw it and sprung for the expensive cables.

I can easily say that I’m beyond nit picking here and if If it were not for me listening very critically in a perfectly quiet environment, with a high end chain and choosing the right tracks to expose sonic differences, it might be hard to identify all the subtle differences between optical and USB. At the end of the day they both sound fantastic. But part of the fun is picking this stuff apart!

Cables make bigger difference than Decrapifiers actually when it comes to smoothnes. Was always getting fatigue from Aq usb cables on most dacs and Ifi Nano usb 3.0 amplified this harshness. With better made usb cables there is lot less brightness than with Aq cables. I dont think Aq designer make anything good for usb. cables suck, jitterbug suck too.

 

[Gibson59]

Cables make bigger difference than Decrapifiers actually when it comes to smoothnes. Was always getting fatigue from Aq usb cables on most dacs and Ifi Nano usb 3.0 amplified this harshness. With better made usb cables there is lot less brightness than with Aq cables. I dont think Aq designer make anything good for usb. cables suck, jitterbug suck too.

Actually I did a USB cable comparison last year between a bunch and the Audioquest Carbon truly outclassed the others. Not to say there aren't better USB cables out there, but I don't think the AQ Carbon USB is a slouch.

 

[Arniesb]

Actually I did a USB cable comparison last year between a bunch and the Audioquest Carbon truly outclassed the others. Not to say there aren't better USB cables out there, but I don't think the AQ Carbon USB is a slouch.

They only use great metals, but very poor design. Thats why they sound forward, bright, digital.

 

[Gibson59]

They only use great metals, but very poor design. Thats why they sound forward, bright, digital.

Interesting. Have you compared your Qutest with your USB cable of choice to the optical connection with a cable of equal quality? If so, I’d like to hear your findings.

And what USB cable are you using? I’m certainly game for trying another one. I suppose what your suggesting re the AQ Carbon is that it has great metal but it has poor shielding? And therefore more RF noise and perceived brightness/hardness?

 

[betula]

Actually I did a USB cable comparison last year between a bunch and the Audioquest Carbon truly outclassed the others. Not to say there aren't better USB cables out there, but I don't think the AQ Carbon USB is a slouch.

Cables make bigger difference than Decrapifiers actually when it comes to smoothnes. Was always getting fatigue from Aq usb cables on most dacs and Ifi Nano usb 3.0 amplified this harshness. With better made usb cables there is lot less brightness than with Aq cables. I dont think Aq designer make anything good for usb. cables suck, jitterbug suck too.

Decrapifiers and cables are slippery slope on Head-Fi. The amount of difference they can bring is often overestimated and it deceives people who are new to the hobby.

Sure they do make a difference, but must come last in the audio chain. Once you have got your prefect 1-2-3 headphones, best 1-2 amps and best DAC you can start to spend your money on cables.

Also, these subtle improvements are very much system dependant. Some systems are more noisy, some are less noisy (even if someone doesn't realise the noise). Some might have grounding issues, some don't.

Reading about the effect of upgrade cables and decrapifiers is very subjective and relative, therefore it must be taken with a grain of salt.

Let me share my experience.
I find the Jitterbug useful regardless the amps or DACs I own. Probably takes off the majority of my laptop noise. I have been using it for many years.

I absolutely loved the iFi iPurifier 3 on my 2Qute. It just added a lot more clarity, it was an instant buy for me.
With the Qutest however I couldn't hear a difference, so I sold the iPurifier 3.

Regarding cables, it is even more complicated, more subtle. My QED Graphite USB cable was definitely better than any basic USB cable.
In another setup I had also tried QED Reference and AQ Cinnamon cables.
My current USB cable is the Wireworld Ultraviolet 7. To me this is the sweet spot of price to performance ratio at the moment. Definitely a cleaner and tighter sound with a blacker background, but it is all relative.

I think even the best cables won't give you more than 5-10% overall improvement. Spending hundreds on cables and decrapifiers is purely insane. And a big mistake IMO.

These extras should not worth more than 5-10% of your entire audio chain.

 

[Gibson59]

I've demoed tons of cables over the years for various connections (USB, headphone cables, optical, speaker cables). I'm aware they are one of the final considerations, but to me an important one nonetheless that I always carefully consider. I'm not interested in any debate about the difference they make (spend three pages going back and forth about whether cables matter which happens too much around here). I simply want to hear from anyone who has a specific USB they like with Qutest that they've chosen over others they've auditioned.

 

[Arniesb]

Interesting. Have you compared your Qutest with your USB cable of choice to the optical connection with a cable of equal quality? If so, I’d like to hear your findings.

And what USB cable are you using? I’m certainly game for trying another one. I suppose what your suggesting re the AQ Carbon is that it has great metal but it has poor shielding? And therefore more RF noise and perceived brightness/hardness?

I had tried On 2qute, but i have friends who tried Different cables and stuff on qutest. Optical always gonna sound smoother, but Good decrapifier + Great usb cable outperforms optical. Round cable design gonna sound harsher cause ground plane is not separeted well enough from signal wires. Wireworld flat desing, Curious outside ground plane desing and double sided cables Like IFi gemini, Jcat reference is what is great designs are.

 

[Arniesb]

Decrapifiers and cables are slippery slope on Head-Fi. The amount of difference they can bring is often overestimated and it deceives people who are new to the hobby.

Sure they do make a difference, but must come last in the audio chain. Once you have got your prefect 1-2-3 headphones, best 1-2 amps and best DAC you can start to spend your money on cables.

Also, these subtle improvements are very much system dependant. Some systems are more noisy, some are less noisy (even if someone doesn't realise the noise). Some might have grounding issues, some don't.

Reading about the effect of upgrade cables and decrapifiers is very subjective and relative, therefore it must be taken with a grain of salt.

Let me share my experience.
I find the Jitterbug useful regardless the amps or DACs I own. Probably takes off the majority of my laptop noise. I have been using it for many years.

I absolutely loved the iFi iPurifier 3 on my 2Qute. It just added a lot more clarity, it was an instant buy for me.
With the Qutest however I couldn't hear a difference, so I sold the iPurifier 3.

Regarding cables, it is even more complicated, more subtle. My QED Graphite USB cable was definitely better than any basic USB cable.
In another setup I had also tried QED Reference and AQ Cinnamon cables.
My current USB cable is the Wireworld Ultraviolet 7. To me this is the sweet spot of price to performance ratio at the moment. Definitely a cleaner and tighter sound with a blacker background, but it is all relative.

I think even the best cables won't give you more than 5-10% overall improvement. Spending hundreds on cables and decrapifiers is purely insane. And a big mistake IMO.

These extras should not worth more than 5-10% of your entire audio chain.

Rabbit hole i think should be right word. It pushes you forward into abyss. +1 wireworld even cheap ones is good enough.

 

[betula]

I've demoed tons of cables over the years for various connections (USB, headphone cables, optical, speaker cables). I'm aware they are one of the final considerations, but to me an important one nonetheless that I always carefully consider. I'm not interested in any debate about the difference they make (spend three pages going back and forth about whether cables matter which happens too much around here). I simply want to hear from anyone who has a specific USB they like with Qutest that they've chosen over others they've auditioned.

Well, I prefer my Ultraviolet 7 to the AQ Cinnamon, QED Reference and QED Graphite. I would never spend more than £100 on a cable though. I found the Jitterbug helpful with all of these cables. Supra cables have a ginormous fan base, I have never tried them.

Cinnamon was clean and bright but not necessarily pleasing or alive. QED Graphite is just not on the level of the 3 others. QED Reference is very clean and tight but physically so stiff I couldn't live with it. Ultraviolet 7 to my ears and needs in my system combines perfect value for price with the most possible clarity and black background while it still maintains a warm and alive nature, not suffocating the music in artificial cleanliness but letting it live in clarity.

I would never spend more than £100 on a cable though or more than 10% of my entire system.

 

[Arniesb]

I've demoed tons of cables over the years for various connections (USB, headphone cables, optical, speaker cables). I'm aware they are one of the final considerations, but to me an important one nonetheless that I always carefully consider. I'm not interested in any debate about the difference they make (spend three pages going back and forth about whether cables matter which happens too much around here). I simply want to hear from anyone who has a specific USB they like with Qutest that they've chosen over others they've auditioned.

For qutest i think from what i heard silver cable is not good... Too bright. Wireworld cheap ones or silver starlight is great or if you want costlier Jcat reference or Ifi gemini would be awesome.
Personally I bought Wireworld starlight 7 platinum for potential Qutest pairing, but later got into some financial issues, so qutest buy have to wait for further evaluations.

 

[Arniesb]

Well, I prefer my Ultraviolet 7 to the AQ Cinnamon, QED Reference and QED Graphite. I would never spend more than £100 on a cable though. I found the Jitterbug helpful with all of these cables. Supra cables have a ginormous fan base, I have never tried them.

Cinnamon was clean and bright but not necessarily pleasing or alive. QED Graphite is just not on the level of the 3 others. QED Reference is very clean and tight but physically so stiff I couldn't live with it. Ultraviolet 7 to my ears and needs in my system combines perfect value for price with the most possible clarity and black background while it still maintains a warm and alive nature, not suffocating the music in artificial cleanliness but letting it live in clarity.

I would never spend more than £100 on a cable though or more than 10% of my entire system.

What i realy like about Wireworld its that they are not shady company. They always show desing, Materials quality, have great warranty and support.

 

[Roybenz]

Cant hear any difference with or without the jitterbug on the heimdall usb. ifi ipower makes the qutest a tiny bit smoother than Stock power supply.

 

[Arniesb]

I think thats because you have imac. Gaming pc's have a lot more powerfull components which make more noise.