Chord Electronics - Hugo 2 - The Official Thread
Nov 11, 2020 at 2:36 PM Post #19,216 of 22,475
I'm wanting to upgrade to a Hugo 2, but considering it is 3 yrs old, is it better to wait for a Hugo 3? I would think in the last 3 yrs, FPGA chips have doubled in performance, good enough for a new Hugo?
Only Chord know the future roadmap.
However this interview from 2019, mentions that streamers prolong the dac life - which I interpret to mean that now 2go is released/shipped, that the Hugo 3 is not likely to be on the short-term horizon.
Yes FPGA chips are available with increased performance, but @Rob Watts posts that they are not yet available at an economic price.
Also bear in mind that a few months ago, Chord posted that after shipping 2Yu, they would pause for a few months and reflect on the best strategy for future product launches.
Given that 2Yu is still delayed because of covid, and covid is causing great uncertainty for next year for many industries, I presume that 2021 may also be a difficult year for new product launches (for many hifi manufacturers).
If any of this is inconsistent with the Chord vision, then I think that @Mojo ideas or @Matt Bartlett know that they can PM me, and i will edit this post.
:relaxed:
 
Nov 11, 2020 at 2:46 PM Post #19,217 of 22,475
@flargosa In other words, based on what miketlse is saying, just buy a Hugo 2 if you want it. I recently started using mine (having bought it months ago) and I am impressed. Get it for yourself for Christmas! :)
 
Nov 11, 2020 at 5:25 PM Post #19,218 of 22,475
I'm wanting to upgrade to a Hugo 2, but considering it is 3 yrs old, is it better to wait for a Hugo 3? I would think in the last 3 yrs, FPGA chips have doubled in performance, good enough for a new Hugo?

Up to you really. 3 years is a long time in the life of electronics these days. It really depends on how much you need it now, how much you like the styling, price, battery performance and longevity, etc. A new Hugo is bound to come out sooner or later but my guess would be later since they have only recently managed to market products like the 2Go that are meant to accompany Hugo2. It would seem a waste to ax Hugo2 and see those products also become redundant.
 
Nov 11, 2020 at 5:52 PM Post #19,219 of 22,475
So using a tube amp with the Hugo₂ will probably offer you what you expect from it: a sound that's spiced up, richer and warmer than the direct connection. I understand that not everyone is as interested in preserved transparency as I am, but adding an amp to a DAC with the best integrated headphone amp you can get – a wire without gain – is a strategy with an extremely poor price/performance ratio. $1000, $2000, $3000 for a one-trick effect device. You'd be better off with one of the various (tube-)amp emulator programs, some of them are even free, and all of them offer the possibility to adjust various parameters. They would still offer the main function of such an approach: masking the tonal flaws within a system, mainly from the sound transducers.

I disagree with the idea of using some kind of digital emulator. These programs re-process the music and you distinctly lose clarity, negating the point of using the Hugo 2 in the first place. This loss I find far more disagreeable than the tube amp I have.

No (lossless) digital volume regulation: You need an integrated amp for a speaker system. Or, if you're lucky, you have a power amp with volume control. Otherwise you have to buy a preamp. To achieve (almost) the same signal integrity as from the Hugo₂ with a preamp, you'd have to invest $875,000.

$875,000 ... Really?

Does anyone know why part of the color is washed out on the volume marble of the Hugo 2? If you look at the marble straight on the marble color is full, but when you look at if from an angle part of the color is washed out. Easy to see on this video at 0:04 green light or at 11:47 red light. My Hugo 2 behaves this way. Not sure if it is normal or if I need to get it serviced.

Because it's an LED shining from one side through a piece of rubber. It's normal.
 
Nov 11, 2020 at 6:09 PM Post #19,220 of 22,475
I think he means that he would like to enter desktop mode without waiting 24 hours after plugging it in.
Very much endorse this. I’m sure you have a good reason for the 24-hour thing, @Rob Watts, but why is that in place? Why doesn’t it make sense to enter desktop mode as soon as the Hugo 2 goes on a charger?
 
Nov 11, 2020 at 6:15 PM Post #19,221 of 22,475
@flargosa In other words, based on what miketlse is saying, just buy a Hugo 2 if you want it. I recently started using mine (having bought it months ago) and I am impressed. Get it for yourself for Christmas! :)
Endorse this – still competes with DACs costing much more, and not just portable ones.
 
Nov 11, 2020 at 6:51 PM Post #19,222 of 22,475
Because it's an LED shining from one side through a piece of rubber. It's normal.

Thanks for your comment.

Hmm...this should be changed in the Hugo 3 if it is normal IMO. Seems like there could have been a better implementation of an LED "shining from one side through a piece of rubber," IMO. I could be the only one who thinks this, though.
 
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Nov 11, 2020 at 9:14 PM Post #19,223 of 22,475
Up to you really. 3 years is a long time in the life of electronics these days.

And life is very short. Get it and enjoy it!
 
Nov 11, 2020 at 10:16 PM Post #19,224 of 22,475
No (lossless) digital volume regulation: You need an integrated amp for a speaker system. Or, if you're lucky, you have a power amp with volume control. Otherwise you have to buy a preamp. To achieve (almost) the same signal integrity as from the Hugo₂ with a preamp, you'd have to invest $875,000.

No crossfeed: which prevents it from offering optimal results with speaker-based recordings through headphones.

No headphone output: You need a separate headphone amp. To achieve (almost) the same signal integrity as from the Hugo₂ you would again have to invest $985,000.

FYI, an integrated amplifier is a switch box and a power amp with a volume control. A power amp with a volume control is just an integrated amplifier with one input, or maybe two if you can choose between balanced and single ended. There is nothing special or lucky about it. A pre amp and a power amp are, all else being equal, not going to damage the signal any more than a power amp with a volume control does.
 
Nov 12, 2020 at 12:48 AM Post #19,225 of 22,475
I'm wanting to upgrade to a Hugo 2, but considering it is 3 yrs old, is it better to wait for a Hugo 3? I would think in the last 3 yrs, FPGA chips have doubled in performance, good enough for a new Hugo?

Unfortunately no new FPGAs that are better with the same cost. The 7 series FPGA which Hugo 2 uses was initially vapour-ware launched way back in 2011. No replacements are on the horizon either - the whole process of making cheaper more capable FPGAs has stalled.

Very much endorse this. I’m sure you have a good reason for the 24-hour thing, @Rob Watts, but why is that in place? Why doesn’t it make sense to enter desktop mode as soon as the Hugo 2 goes on a charger?

Desktop mode gives the battery a lower charging voltage, so you only will ever charge it to 80% capacity. Not good if you need a full charge... So most people who use it on the move will charge overnight, so you will get a 100% charge. If you keep it on and charged then I gave it 24 hours because after 24 hours you are clearly not charging then using it. Note if you turn it off then the battery will charge to 100% then disconnect the charger - so all bases are covered.
 
Nov 12, 2020 at 8:10 AM Post #19,226 of 22,475
yup which is very weird and probably its engineering reasons. But my main concern is why am unable to turn it on using remote but only able to turn it on while in charging mode.
I would guess it is engineered this way to conserve battery while not connected to power. Even if it consumers just a little bit of power to have the IR circuitry, powered on it still means your battery drains faster while you're not using your Hugo. If connected to power, it doesn't matter. Ok?
 
Nov 12, 2020 at 9:03 AM Post #19,227 of 22,475
I disagree with the idea of using some kind of digital emulator. These programs re-process the music and you distinctly lose clarity, negating the point of using the Hugo 2 in the first place. This loss I find far more disagreeable than the tube amp I have.
«Re-processing» is an ugly word for mere DSP, as it implicates a massive signal deterioration, including the infamous breaking of «bit perfection». But if you categorically dismiss DSP, you're also not allowed to use equalizers or digital volume control. Among those there are enough well-implemented examples to disprove the claim of lost clarity and transparency. In my case the equalizer (Neutron) even enhances clarity and transparency – by removing masking effects by dominating frequency bands, without affecting small signals in any way.

Of course (tube-)amp emulators will degrade transparency to some degree – just like added real-world amplifiers. You seem to ignore that this feature is exactly what those users want: A (in their case analogue) sound processing with the ability to mask the headphones' tonal shortcomings. If you use a well-implemented amp emulator and limit yourself to a modest dose of well-mixed harmonic distortion, you should achieve similar results. Apart from sound effects other than harmonic distortion, such as «cable sound» from the various signal paths.

To be honest, I haven't occupied myself with tube-amp emulators (have you?), and although my suggestion is serious, not polemic, it is meant to demonstrate the absurdity of a useless amplification stage with the function of a one-trick effect device. Note that I'm not disputing the sonic benefit in the respective cases (corresponding to the listener's sonic ideals), it's just that you could do better if you're interested in ultimate lifelikeness and transparency – and saving money. Of course that's not just a dogmatic pretension out of thin air, but derived from extensive experiments during my own audio jouney, which I'm on since 50 years or the like.

The popularity of external amps stems from the expectation of a real technical benefit in the sense of higher accuracy, better control and higher dynamics – derived from the usual case of a DAC with headphone output that is bypassed if you use a «better» amp. And many users like the extra warmth, oomph, roundness and forgivingness they provide, thus seem to be confirmed that the sonic result be «better» even in the case at hand where they offer no objective benefit. I don't dispute their sonic preference at all, just suggest a valuable alternative for adventurous audiophiles striving for ultimate transparency and realism. And I do mean realism (and musicality!), not anemic analyticalness!

$875,000 ... Really?
You're probably right, I should have said $8,750,000. But the number doesn't matter, it just serves to illustrate the impossibility for a preamp to accomplish the signal integrity of a piece of wire.


FYI, an integrated amplifier is a switch box and a power amp with a volume control. A power amp with a volume control is just an integrated amplifier with one input, or maybe two if you can choose between balanced and single ended. There is nothing special or lucky about it. A pre amp and a power amp are, all else being equal, not going to damage the signal any more than a power amp with a volume control does.
An integrated amplifier usually consists of a preamp and a power amp, integrated in one housing. Some of them have a pre-amp output for the connection of a separate power amp.
There are a few exceptions, where the pre-amp stage is entirely passive (Creek, Ayre, Gryphon...).
 
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Nov 12, 2020 at 11:14 AM Post #19,229 of 22,475
Unfortunately no new FPGAs that are better with the same cost. The 7 series FPGA which Hugo 2 uses was initially vapour-ware launched way back in 2011. No replacements are on the horizon either - the whole process of making cheaper more capable FPGAs has stalled.
Hoping that the Hugo 2 does not mark the end of the line, Rob, do you see development potential down roads other than more powerful/economically viable fpgas?
 

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