[Mython]

i was toying with the idea of upgrading from my mojo to a dave using H2 a stepping stone for a while now. however after seeing mython's recommendation for the new casio dac which is actually reported to possibly outperform blu/dave and retails for £5.99 i have had to rethink my strategy. the only problem is that after extensive online searching i cannot find it for sale in any of the big hifi dealers. could someone guide me please.

Sorry you're having trouble sourcing one - they are a very high-end, niche product.

My local Hi-Fi dealer often has them in stock, so I suggest you visit your local branch - if they don't have them in stock, they may be able to special order one for you.

Hope this helps.

 

[dannyvstheworld]

Hello everyone, help needed. Have you experienced constant static when connecting via Bluetooth? The problem is, the static sound strictly comes out of the right channel but is not at all present in the left channel, which makes me suspect that it's probably not normal but just my unit being defective.

The static sound level: AK70 > Sony A35 > iPhone 6s. The static is only noticeable for sensitive BA IEMs (Andromeda >> Massdrop Plus).

BTW with Andromeda, I could hear very low level of static even when not connecting to any source, again only in the right channel, though it's only slightly noticeable in very quiet environment. Not the normal hissing, which is present in both channels.

Please let me know if you have similar experience. I just want to make sure it's the unit being defective instead of some universal issues. Thanks!

BTW apart from this little problem, the sound is just amazing. Don't think I could go back to my Mojo ever again, except for probably some poorly mastered Hip Hop.

 

[Triode User]

Hello everyone, help needed. Have you experienced constant static when connecting via Bluetooth? The problem is, the static sound strictly comes out of the right channel but is not at all present in the left channel, which makes me suspect that it's probably not normal but just my unit being defective.

The static sound level: AK70 > Sony A35 > iPhone 6s. The static is only noticeable for sensitive BA IEMs (Andromeda >> Massdrop Plus).

BTW with Andromeda, I could hear very low level of static even when not connecting to any source, again only in the right channel, though it's only slightly noticeable in very quiet environment. Not the normal hissing, which is present in both channels.

Please let me know if you have similar experience. I just want to make sure it's the unit being defective instead of some universal issues. Thanks!

BTW apart from this little problem, the sound is just amazing. Don't think I could go back to my Mojo ever again, except for probably some poorly mastered Hip Hop.

Just have a check that you have not got anything nearby that uses WiFi. I had some static once with something else and it turned out to be a nearby wifi repeater.

 

[tekkster]

Partially figured out my question, so deleted.

 

[ZappaMan]

So, I have some DSD files as well as some FLAC files at 96kHz sampling rate.

On any iOS player (Flacplayer+, Onkyo HF Player, Flacbox), the files play, but when sending through the dongle to the H2, the H2 light shows red (44.1kHz PCM). Why is that?

When sourcing those same files from a Cayin n5ii, the H2 light shows white for DSD and green for 96kHz, as I would expect it to.

Does this mean that iOS third party apps down-sample? And if so, is there an app designed to get around this?

I'm not implying or suggesting that my ears could tell the difference either way, but I am curious as to why this is.

Is there an iOS player that can send the files out as is?

Incidentally, the same question for OSX, as both Swinsian and Audrivana seem to be doing the same thing (H2 rate shows red for 44.1) though I suspect that there might be a setting somewhere (must be software, since I tried both optical out from the iMac and USB out).

Really, only the n5ii has been able to send the source file as is to the H2, it seems.

Have you configured onkyo to upsample to dsd (via cogs button - top right on player?).
Glider 1.8 supports dsd files, copied locally to the phone, this is in beta, contact @joe28 from glider. You have to stream the dsd file to a renderer tho, direct playback througb iPhone is not possible as yet.

 

[bytor33]

But isn’t the cck cable responsible for a little bit of loss in the sound quality ?

Not that I'm aware of, the same data gets through regardless. I've played 5.6MHz DSD through it without problems.

Is there an iOS player that can send the files out as is?

Onkyo HF Player will play them bit perfect and is the app Chord recommends. Make you sure you have upsampling off in the options. I'm not familiar with the other 2 apps.

 

[tekkster]

Have you configured onkyo to upsample to dsd (via cogs button - top right on player?).
Glider 1.8 supports dsd files, copied locally to the phone, this is in beta, contact joe from glider.

Thanks for the info. I partially figured out some of these. Onkyo I finally figured out, but haven't figured out Flacbox or FlacPLayer+. Ultimately it might not matter too much.
Also figured out Swinsian.

Thanks for the help

 

[ZappaMan]

Not that I'm aware of, the same data gets through regardless. I've played 5.6MHz DSD through it without problems.



Onkyo HF Player will play them bit perfect and is the app Chord recommends. Make you sure you have upsampling off in the options. I'm not familiar with the other 2 apps.

People on the poly thread say it sounds so much better, I’d assumed part of that was due to removal of some interference with the cable.

 

[Rob Watts]

Hi Rob,
sorry for joining this discussion late. I went back to the Chord WEB site and could not find any of your measurements there. Do you mind sharing what you see on your most excellent rig
Overall the Hugo 2 seems to measure really well except for some problems when connecting headphones.

Cheers

Thomas

I have posted these earlier in the thread, but here are measurement slides from my Hugo 2 presentation (which I am giving at CanJam NYC).

The output impedance is important for several reasons - one being damping - the more damping the tighter and more tuneful the bass becomes. It is also important because headphone and speaker loads are non-linear - and this non-linearity means the load impedance seen by the Hugo 2 amplifier will create more distortion. If the OP impedance of the amplifier is reduced, then the distortion contribution from the amp is also reduced. That's one reason why Hugo 2 has such extraordinary low OP impedance - it means that as the load changes, no extra distortion is created, nor is the frequency response changed too.

Anybody that reads my posts know how passionate (ok maybe crazy) I am about noise floor modulation, as I find it very audible - even levels well below measurability is audible in terms of things sounding a bit warmer or smoother. All non Chord DAC's have huge levels of noise floor modulation, and one of my key metrics I employ before a design is ever signed off, is that it must have no measurable noise floor modulation. You need an accurate notch filter or an APx555 to do this measurement, as ADC's themselves have large amounts of noise floor modulation. The APx555 has 4 ADC's and do interesting tricks to eliminate the measurement problem.

This proves how adding a load makes negligible difference to distortion - and that's down to the 2nd order analogue noise shaper, something only Hugo 2 and Dave enjoy. But what it means is that a difficult load will not make the sound harden up.

The beauty of this test is that it proves how well isolated the battery is; so noise and distortion from the batteries finite impedance does not change the OP. PSU induced distortion is usually a major component in measurements and sound quality.

No jitter components at all - and this is with the noise floor well below -170 dB from the -3dB Jitter test tone.

Hope this helps. What it shows is that difficult loads will not increase distortion at all; that the ultra low impedance will improve damping, and not allow load induced distortion; that Hugo 2 has no measurable noise floor modulation, and no measurable jitter aberrations at all. But to do these test, you have to have state of the art measurement kit, and be prepared to take considerable time in setting up the testing, and evaluating the results. These things can't be rushed.

Rob

 

[Rob Watts]

i was toying with the idea of upgrading from my mojo to a dave using H2 a stepping stone for a while now. however after seeing mython's recommendation for the new casio dac which is actually reported to possibly outperform blu/dave and retails for £5.99 i have had to rethink my strategy. the only problem is that after extensive online searching i cannot find it for sale in any of the big hifi dealers. could someone guide me please.

endless love // lionel ritchie // diana ross // roon //

Assuming it takes 10 seconds to type into my Casio, I worked out that the Casio M scaler would take 33,769 years for a human to calculate one second of music....

 

[Jawed]

Hope this helps. What it shows is that difficult loads will not increase distortion at all; that the ultra low impedance will improve damping, and not allow load induced distortion;

Regardless of whether the person doing the testing is competent, I think there is merit in the technique of taking measurements with headphones attached instead of a dummy load (33 ohms in your case). What's interesting here is that planar magnetic headphones are the "easiest" headphones, because impedance and phase is almost perfectly constant with varying frequency. Planar magnetic headphones are almost purely resistive and so they're the most similar to your dummy load.

Dynamic headphones are showing real problems in the bass, with the worst being Focal Utopia. I don't know if his measurements can be trusted since there appear to be errors in other measurements he's made (he admits that the output impedance is probably wrong).

Would you consider publishing tests with various headphones connected? Some fairly cheap Sennheiser headphones appear to be good examples of a problematic load, e.g.HD518 is £115

https://www.amazon.co.uk//dp/B0042A68R8

and while the sound quality is likely to be something you hate, as a tool it could be very useful. Maybe you have something similar already?

A purely resistive dummy load of 33 ohms appears to produce a misleading measurement of distortion, especially as dynamic headphones are the most commonly available and appear to present a genuine problem for headphone amplification.

Now playing: Ernest Answermet - Balakirev - Thamar - Symphonic Poem

 

[Rob Watts]

Regardless of whether the person doing the testing is competent, I think there is merit in the technique of taking measurements with headphones attached instead of a dummy load (33 ohms in your case). What's interesting here is that planar magnetic headphones are the "easiest" headphones, because impedance and phase is almost perfectly constant with varying frequency. Planar magnetic headphones are almost purely resistive and so they're the most similar to your dummy load.

Dynamic headphones are showing real problems in the bass, with the worst being Focal Utopia. I don't know if his measurements can be trusted since there appear to be errors in other measurements he's made (he admits that the output impedance is probably wrong).

Would you consider publishing tests with various headphones connected? Some fairly cheap Sennheiser headphones appear to be good examples of a problematic load, e.g.HD518 is £115

https://www.amazon.co.uk//dp/B0042A68R8

and while the sound quality is likely to be something you hate, as a tool it could be very useful. Maybe you have something similar already?

A purely resistive dummy load of 33 ohms appears to produce a misleading measurement of distortion, especially as dynamic headphones are the most commonly available and appear to present a genuine problem for headphone amplification.

Now playing: Ernest Answermet - Balakirev - Thamar - Symphonic Poem

What we need is a headphone that has a non-linear impedance - not with frequency, but with amplitude. And it would only tell you what we already know - it's an OP impedance problem, so lower OP impedance would directly produce lower distortion.

 

[Jawed]

What we need is a headphone that has a non-linear impedance - not with frequency, but with amplitude. And it would only tell you what we already know - it's an OP impedance problem, so lower OP impedance would directly produce lower distortion.

So are you saying that a typical dynamic headphone, with impedance and phase angle varying with frequency, there will be no increase in distortion in bass frequencies compared to the rest of the frequency range, when connected to Hugo 2, say?

 

[Rob Watts]

So are you saying that a typical dynamic headphone, with impedance and phase angle varying with frequency, there will be no increase in distortion in bass frequencies compared to the rest of the frequency range, when connected to Hugo 2, say?

No - as that implies zero output impedance, and Hugo 2 is 0.025 ohms. But what I am saying is that it's entirely predictive, and dependent solely on the change in impedance of the load against the amp's OP impedance. So a zero ohm output impedance amp would have zero extra distortion due to the load changing it's impedance with amplitude.

 

[thePhones]

What I find really interesting is that it´s much easier for me to adjust my equalizer with Hugo 2 than with other DACs or even Hugo 1. Before Hugo 2 it always was like "hmm there is something tonally wrong" , but now I just hear exactly where there is too much or less. Finally I get closer to the realism I need