[JaZZ]

Interesting topic. I can understand those who might like to use an amp, for example tubes, to add a pleasing coloration. It is the others that I struggle to fathom who want a perfectly transparent amp to hear through. If the amp is perfectly transparent, then don't bother because the difference it makes will be perfectly zero, (unless of course you need it to drive speakers or something.)

Regarding amplifiers, I don't buy into the idea that non Chord amplifiers will all be like a wet carpet, obscuring the true Chord sound. There are plenty of good amps out there. Chord does not have any magic sauce that makes their amp much better than an amp from brand X.

Who said that you need a Chord amp for maximum transparency? Of course Chord's power amps (AFAIK they don't make headphone amps) are just amps as well, with the usual loss of transparency that you can't avoid with conventional amps. It's not about preserving the «Chord sound», but about preserving the highest possible accuracy for which Chord DACs are known, particularly in the role of headphone amps, where headphones are fed by the DAC output stage directly, which means one source of coloration and obfuscation missing. So, since you can't bypass the headphone output, an external amp will corrupt the signal to some degree. The high hopes in terms of new Chord amps are addressed to Rob's revolutionary PowerPulse amps – a line-up of digital class A power amps – currently being developed, promising 100% accuracy and transparency, the wire-with-gain scenario becoming reality if all goes well.

Of course not. That's a given. Why would one buy an amp unless you have speakers or HPs which need more power to reach their full potential? The Susvara, (...) the HE-6 and a few others seem to require more drive. I don't have any of them, so I don't need an extra amp. But, if I did, I'd prefer an attempt by Chord to make an amp that complemented, rather than detracted from the original sound of the DAC. I'm still inclined to think that if one wants that warm sound, choose an apropriate DAC rather than the old 'silk purse' idea.

At least the DAVE can drive the Susvara with ease, to my surprise. The Hugo₂ will be a tougher case.

Another alternative option to using a tube amp to color the sound is viper4windows, the tube simulator and cure tech + add a dash of honey to the sound and it sounds really euphoric and enjoyable without any audible loss in transparency. Best of all, it's free!

The only person who isn't allowed to use it is whazzzup since he hates windows so much!

That's actually a good idea! And I mean it seriously. But probably most tube-sound lovers or amplifier advocates won't bite into it, since it makes the fact that they're dealing with artificial colorations too obvious.

 

[Whazzzup]

 

[JaZZ]

Of course you can still do what you want. And say what you want, if you have something to say. My point of view may just be interesting for those who strive for maximum transparency.

 

[jlbrach]

At least the DAVE can drive the Susvara with ease, to my surprise. The Hugo₂ will be a tougher case.

I find that hard to believe....i use the dave to drive the Abyss and LCD-4 and while it does so quite well I cannot imagine it driving the much more difficult to drive susvara...i heard the susvara at camjam and it sounded underpowered to me although i do not remember what was driving it.....

 

[JaZZ]

Well, I auditioned it, and it's definitely true – to my ears. Pretending that a headphone sound «underpowered» is a questionable statement, particularly if you haven't heard it before and in a different system. What I can say, though, is that I still liked the HE1000 better, both driven by the DAVE. The Susvara didn't sound «underpowered» at all nonetheless, it offered the same dynamic range throughout the frequency spectrum and sounded very clean as well.

 

[jlbrach]

no problem,just not what i have heard over and over and in fact hifiman has paired a super powerful 15K amp with the susvara due its its lack of efficiency....i am not pretending that a HP sounds underpowered,it did sound underpowered in my brief listening session and as i said I am not a novice with this stuff lol.....that said,whatever works for you

 

[MacedonianHero]

absolutely zero reason to introduce an amp between the H2 and the utopia which is so efficient...IMHO a waste of time and effort and money

^ Totally agree...all you'd be doing is adding distortion and degrading the audio signal's integrity.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Well, I auditioned it, and it's definitely true – to my ears. Pretending that a headphone sound «underpowered» is a questionable statement, particularly if you haven't heard it before and in a different system. What I can say, though, is that I still liked the HE1000 better, both driven by the DAVE. The Susvara didn't sound «underpowered» at all nonetheless, it offered the same dynamic range throughout the frequency spectrum and sounded very clean as well.

Just curious, how high did you have to turn up the DAVE with the Susvara headphones?

 

[Deftone]

Now i have come across this quite a few times and on different forums where people label chord dacs as sounding "digital", harsh and artificial. If Rob Watts goal is to create dacs that perfectly reconstruct the analog signal and nothing more than doesnt that mean his truly transparent dacs are actually revealing to you its the source that is the problem and therefore the off the shelf dac chips and tube amps are sugar coating the signal to sound more pleasing to the ear? then that would mean people instantly assume that the softer, more organic sound must be the other dacs doing a "better" job.

 

[JaZZ]

no problem, just not what i have heard over and over and in fact hifiman has paired a super powerful 15K amp with the susvara due its its lack of efficiency....i am not pretending that a HP sounds underpowered,it did sound underpowered in my brief listening session and as i said I am not a novice with this stuff lol.....that said,whatever works for you

So we're both not novices... I'm still criticizing your characterization as «underpowered» (which you don't really know, you don't even know the amp that drove it) instead of mentioning the sonic deficits independent of power speculations. What if it was HiFiMan's super powerful 15k amp?

Just curious, how high did you have to turn up the DAVE with the Susvara headphones?

I was at –7 dB at max, normal level was –9 to –10 dB. The normal level with the HE1000 (with V2 pads) was about –17 dB.

 

[jlbrach]

So we're both not novices... I'm still criticizing your characterization as «underpowered» (which you don't really know, you don't even know the amp that drove it) instead of mentioning the sonic deficits independent of power speculations. What if it was HiFiMan's super powerful 15k amp?


I was at –7 dB at max, normal level was –9 to –10 dB. The normal level with the HE1000 (with V2 pads) was about –17 dB.

i do not want to cast doubt on your claims but I listen to my Phi and LCD-4 with the Dave anywhere from about -18 to -3 for really soft passages and the susvara is SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult to drive than the mentioned HP's...something doesnt add up here

 

[MacedonianHero]

So we're both not novices... I'm still criticizing your characterization as «underpowered» (which you don't really know, you don't even know the amp that drove it) instead of mentioning the sonic deficits independent of power speculations. What if it was HiFiMan's super powerful 15k amp?


I was at –7 dB at max, normal level was –9 to –10 dB. The normal level with the HE1000 (with V2 pads) was about –17 dB.

Thanks for the confirmation...at -7dB, how loud would that be? Thanks!

 

[JaZZ]

No hard feelings, Jlbrach! It's just that in my view having to turn the volume up is not the same as characterizing a headphone as hard to drive. Moreover, my recordings are normalized, probably a factor in favor of less demand for higher gain than you're used to.

 

[JaZZ]

Thanks for the confirmation...at -7dB, how loud would that be? Thanks!

Absolutely satisfyingly loud, the levels I'm used to at home. Let's say half to almost the level of a classical concert in a concert hall. (I don't use dB meters.)

 

[MacedonianHero]

Absolutely satisfyingly loud, the levels I'm used to at home. Let's say half to almost the level of a classical concert in a concert hall. (I don't use dB meters.)

Thank you sir.