CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[Jawed]

I must have missed that paying better attention i could have had this bliss earlier hmm i guess you have done these things yourself in secret lol

If not, you should come have a listen

I'm just biding my time for Ultima DAC with lots of music in the meantime.

Maybe, now, your DAVE is set up well enough so that you can hear the radiated RF from HMS

 

[GuiltyRocker]

I'm just biding my time for Ultima DAC with lots of music in the meantime.

Maybe, now, your DAVE is set up well enough so that you can hear the radiated RF from HMS

 

[ecwl]

I agree, however, on the case of the R2Rs, I think it has more to do with poor transient resolution, most R2Rs are just trying to use resistor ladders to reproduce the digital signal, as the voltage gets smaller and smaller from the most significant bit to the least significant bit there are a ton of issues as the resistors can never match. Then there is the case that the sampled data just cannot be reproduced with transient accuracy, the digital signal looks like a ladder instead of a wave, that is where oversampling done properly takes things to the next level, because you add buffer points between the samples smoothing out the signal and having more accuracy in terms of predicting there the timing of the transients are, not too late, or too early. You can argue that an R2R DAC's strength is that it doesn't have a noise shaper, but all the other issues are crazy. The reason they sound "soft' and "warm" is because they have poor timing and transient accuracy, that's my take. I just cannot stand those DACs, but, I don't go to their forums to talk nonsense about those DACs to people that love their sound, I don't understand the need some people have to do that and then talk about other DACs instead

Yeah I am not sure if you’ve read a comment I made in the past at the M-Scaler forum. I’m personally convinced that about or at least 5-10% of people who got or tried an M-scaler cannot hear improvements in transient accuracy despite going from 40,000-164,000 taps to 1 million taps. This is another reason why I think some people don’t appreciate Chord DACs because they can’t or haven’t learnt to listen for improved transient accuracy. Now to them, you and I just don’t understand how to listen to the “warmth” of their favourite DACs. Moreover, if you have too noisy a USB source feeding a Chord dac, you can also lose transient accuracy.

As I get older I don’t know how I feel about this situation. Because I love audio but I know my high frequency hearing is going but I am still a music lover and an audiophile. So just because I can’t hear the highest frequencies, does my hi fi preference become invalid?
So for those who either can’t hear transient accuracy as well as we do, or haven’t learnt to hear it compared to live music, I don’t know what to think. If they’re happy with their R2R DAC sound, I should be happy for them? Just like people might be happy that I’m happy with my headphones or speakers that could very well be too bright except maybe I can’t hear the higher frequencies.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

Yeah I am not sure if you’ve read a comment I made in the past at the M-Scaler forum. I’m personally convinced that about or at least 5-10% of people who got or tried an M-scaler cannot hear improvements in transient accuracy despite going from 40,000-164,000 taps to 1 million taps. This is another reason why I think some people don’t appreciate Chord DACs because they can’t or haven’t learnt to listen for improved transient accuracy. Now to them, you and I just don’t understand how to listen to the “warmth” of their favourite DACs. Moreover, if you have too noisy a USB source feeding a Chord dac, you can also lose transient accuracy.

As I get older I don’t know how I feel about this situation. Because I love audio but I know my high frequency hearing is going but I am still a music lover and an audiophile. So just because I can’t hear the highest frequencies, does my hi fi preference become invalid?
So for those who either can’t hear transient accuracy as well as we do, or haven’t learnt to hear it compared to live music, I don’t know what to think. If they’re happy with their R2R DAC sound, I should be happy for them? Just like people might be happy that I’m happy with my headphones or speakers that could very well be too bright except maybe I can’t hear the higher frequencies.

I agree, if they're happy with their R2Rs I'm very happy for them, no judgment here. I personally don't like those DACs at all, I have friends that like them and I'm totally ecstatic for them. I wish I couldn't hear what Rob Watts DACs do, it has cost me dearly

 

[SteveHulk]

Just watching a 4k movie with the sound direct from Dave over my aging hd800 phones.

The scene is an apartment and it is raining outside.

I can hear the rain falling ALL AROUND ME AND ABOVE

 

[jlbrach]

PSA: Toslink is the worst way to connect high end digital gear: plastic plug, LED transmitter, consumer quality receiver, wavelength too long, light scattering issues, smeared/softer transients (works with Dave because Dave is too thin and too sharp, too aggressive, and too edgy), slower sounding and reduced dynamics.

dave is a TOTL DAC that has stood the test of time...all products will have all sorts of opinions both good and bad but a product that has been around as long as the dave and still is a favorite among the community is a testimony to the quality of the product..I have owned the dave for some time now, I have switched out my headphones my amps and all sorts of other equipment but the one thing still with me is my dave....I have listened to other DAC's some far more expensive but nothing has moved me to replace the dave

 

[GuiltyRocker]

dave is a TOTL DAC that has stood the test of time...all products will have all sorts of opinions both good and bad but a product that has been around as long as the dave and still is a favorite among the community is a testimony to the quality of the product..I have owned the dave for some time now, I have switched out my headphones my amps and all sorts of other equipment but the one thing still with me is my dave....I have listened to other DAC's some far more expensive but nothing has moved me to replace the dave

Excellent, the trolls hate hearing that . It makes them lose their minds

 

[number1sixerfan]

Dave and DA2 are not in the same class in terms of sound quality. Dave simply lacks the kind of sound density, drive, dynamics and bass response that almost all high end dacs have. Dave sounds digital and most high end dacs do not.

Yea, I would agree that stock Dave does mainly lack timbre and to a lesser degree bass definition and presence. Now at the same time, many other high end DACs lack the holographic imaging, spacing and detail the Dave does have. I have heard everything DCS makes and it's a perfect example of this exact tradeoff.

Until you take it off the grid, put it on a rock solid accu battery with the lowest ESR cap buffer one can find straight on its amp section and feed it source data over double industrial fibers.

This thing sounds nothing like you described

Agree. With an isolated PSU and the mods to the Dave, the few shortcomings it does have are fully addressed. And it's an easy, immediate thing to pick up on.

This is exactly what I’ve been saying—now you’re finally identifying and addressing the shortcomings in Dave’s engineering. However, when I purchase a DAC, I expect it to sound great right out of the box with just a basic $2 power cable. If I want to enhance the sound, I can always make further improvements like better cabling and conditioner, but it should sound great from the start. I don’t want to have to modify, tweak, add a $5k+ external power supply, or be required to incorporate numerous magnets, a $1000 power cable, $2k worth of conditioning, and other accessories to fix something that should have been properly designed initially.

Also fully agree here. No one should have to invest additional thousands of dollars for mods that should arguably be included in a stock out of the box solution--especially wrt the PSU. That said, when you add it all up the Dave ends up still being competitive. To beat what the Dave does technically (outside of timbre/bass), you really need to pay a pretty penny to get there (i.e. my Lampi Pacific, similar to others that have upgraded to other dacs and have felt substantial upgrades, you have to pay a premium). But again, I agree with the point being made as adding a bunch of mods and changes and the process to get there when you can't do them yourself is honestly annoying.

Also this largely comes down to what you enjoy and prefer. If holographic spacing and ultimate detail aren't top of your list (i.e. rather warmth and timbre/bass are) then it would make sense to start with other DACs (edit* or the TT2).

_____

Also meant to cross share my post of impressions from trying out @Reactcore's awesome modded system. The best you'll ever hear the Dave

 

[Meridian7]

This is exactly what I’ve been saying—now you’re finally identifying and addressing the shortcomings in Dave’s engineering. However, when I purchase a DAC, I expect it to sound great right out of the box with just a basic $2 power cable. If I want to enhance the sound, I can always make further improvements like better cabling and conditioner, but it should sound great from the start. I don’t want to have to modify, tweak, add a $5k+ external power supply, or be required to incorporate numerous magnets, a $1000 power cable, $2k worth of conditioning, and other accessories to fix something that should have been properly designed initially.

Adding a perspective that resembles @number1sixerfan

I think Dave's vulnerability is the back side of it's strongest asset. Like wearing white pants stain easily and people getting fed up with that is normal.

Dave is so sensitive one can decern different streamer software.

I heard the DCS Lina stack.
Very sure you cannot throw off its sound signature so easily and that may seem robust but to celebrate actually an insensitivity as an advantage?

Lina is a tractor and Dave a Cadillac. The tractor rides fine on every surface, the Cadillac needs a cared for surface to excel.

Unluckily some rode the Cadillac on a pothole tarmac and conclude Cadillac sucks and tractors are better and keep promoting this conviction as Cadillac experts

All in good spirit

 

[Reactcore]

Just watching a 4k movie with the sound direct from Dave over my aging hd800 phones.

The scene is an apartment and it is raining outside.

I can hear the rain falling ALL AROUND ME AND ABOVE

And your HD800 can be improved also as i did mine by moving its wave dispercer frame to the other side of the metal mount ring and take the sound diffusing filter sheets off.

It plays in the ballpark with the best competitors imho

 

[icnaiwhimor1975]

And your HD800 can be improved also as i did mine by moving its wave dispercer frame to the other side of the metal mount ring and take the sound diffusing filter sheets off.

It plays in the ballpark with the best competitors imho

Have you ever thought that HD800 are not good enough headphones for DAVE?)

 

[GuiltyRocker]

The DAVE is not thin and doesn't lack bass, that is just nonsense. What it is is that some people listen to a tube DAC loaded with even order harmonic distortion and poor transient resolution, which rounds up the bass and makes one think one has more bass, that is just an illusion. For me, I do not want sloppy round lack-of-transients bass, I want fast, tight and punchy bass, which the DAVE and other Rob Watts DACs do, to each his own.

 

[Rob Watts]

As I get older I don’t know how I feel about this situation. Because I love audio but I know my high frequency hearing is going but I am still a music lover and an audiophile. So just because I can’t hear the highest frequencies, does my hi fi preference become invalid?
So for those who either can’t hear transient accuracy as well as we do, or haven’t learnt to hear it compared to live music, I don’t know what to think. If they’re happy with their R2R DAC sound, I should be happy for them? Just like people might be happy that I’m happy with my headphones or speakers that could very well be too bright except maybe I can’t hear the higher frequencies.

My research into transient timing whilst developing Quartet M scaler, demonstrated the huge importance of transient timing; indeed, the tiniest error has perceivable consequences. Fortunately, research into the brain's timing accuracy at the cellular level has shown that as we get older, the ability of the brain to measure transient timing doesn't degrade (assuming good brain health of course), unlike HF response from the ears, which sadly is a fixed degradation.

So you may lose the ability to hear 15kHz, but the important things that are essential for musicality - timbre, bass pitch, instrument separation, sound stage and depth, which all depend upon the brain processing transient timing information, does not suffer. So there is hope as you get older in terms of being able to still enjoy music.

 

[griff500]

I would imagine that much of what we 'hear' is provided by our brain and that it takes certain cues and fills in the gaps, much like an optical illusion. If those cues are present then we probably get the benefit even if we cannot actually hear them.

 

[number1sixerfan]

The DAVE is not thin and doesn't lack bass, that is just nonsense. What it is is that some people listen to a tube DAC loaded with even order harmonic distortion and poor transient resolution, which rounds up the bass and makes one think one has more bass, that is just an illusion. For me, I do not want sloppy round lack-of-transients bass, I want fast, tight and punchy bass, which the DAVE and other Rob Watts DACs do, to each his own.

In stock form it does. I already felt this to be the case at times, but the A/B'ing done with a Dave with a modded PSU/caps makes this extremely apparent. Many folks that have a TT2 (which also has a better power supply) have shared the same feedback in comparison. The impressions here are simply too consistent. The DCS gear, which overall I wasn't a large fan off, also has better timbre and bass than Dave stock, but there are a lot of resolution tradeoffs that I don't feel are worth it.

No product is perfect and nearly all gear has tradeoffs. There's no need to make it seem otherwise. And honestly, it's the constant desire to paint the Dave as some absolute superior and perfect product that attracts so many trolls in this thread to begin with. It's a great product that's still relevant, that has some design flaws and that's OK.